Conservative scaremongering over electoral register dismissed as “nonsense”

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By a Newsnet reporter

The Scottish Government has dismissed as “nonsense” claims by the Scottish Conservatives that the Scottish Parliament would be unable to access the full electoral roll for the independence referendum.

According to Scotland’s sole Tory PM, David Mundell, the Scottish Government would be forced to rely upon the publicly available electoral register, which is mainly used by marketing companies.

By a Newsnet reporter

The Scottish Government has dismissed as “nonsense” claims by the Scottish Conservatives that the Scottish Parliament would be unable to access the full electoral roll for the independence referendum.

According to Scotland’s sole Tory PM, David Mundell, the Scottish Government would be forced to rely upon the publicly available electoral register, which is mainly used by marketing companies.

Voters can opt out of being included in the public register, and according to Mr Mundell this would lead to one million Scots would be denied a vote.  However Mr Mundell’s claim was immediately dismissed by a spokesperson for the Scottish government as “nonsense”.

The Conservatives maintain that if the Scottish government refuses to accede to Westminster demands to set the timing, question and terms of the referendum, and goes ahead with the referendum on the terms it promised to the Scottish electorate, the election would be illegal.  Mr Mundell believes that this means that the Scottish government would be barred from using the full electoral register.

According to a statement from the Conservatives, based on figures from the General Register Office for Scotland, almost 27% of the 3.9 million voters on the electoral register have opted out of the publicly available version.

Mr Mundell said: “The UK government has set out very clearly that the Scottish government cannot legislate lawfully for a referendum with its current powers.

“The full electoral register can only be used for specific purposes such as the general or Holyrood elections.

“The legal position is clear – if the SNP attempts to go ahead with its own referendum then it will be nothing more than an opinion poll, with a million Scots unable to be asked for their view.”

However a spokesperson for the Scottish government rejected Mr Mundell’s and noted that the referendum would be carried out after the appropriate legislation was passed at Holyrood, ensuring full access to the register.

The spokesperson added:  “The Scottish government is entirely confident of its position, and of the overwhelming mandate it has received from the people of Scotland to hold a referendum.  In any event, the claim that the full electoral register will not be used for the referendum is simply nonsense.”  

Responding to the Conservative statement, SNP Chief Whip Stewart Hosie MP said:

“The Westminster parties are blundering from one PR disaster to another with their cack-handed attempts to interfere with Scotland’s referendum.  The First Minister has made very clear that we will launch a consultation on the referendum later this month and the anti-independence parties should wait for that consultation.

“Every step the anti-independence parties have taken since Cameron’s chaotic intervention on Monday has done nothing but boost support for independence and ensuring that the people of Scotland are able to see decisions taken about what’s best of Scotland in Scotland.”

Meanwhile First Minister Alex Salmond has dismissed threats from Tory Chancellor George Osborne who claimed that Scotland would be refused permission to use Sterling in the event of independence.  Speaking on the Politics Show Mr Salmond explained that the Bank of England was not owned by Mr Osborne and that Scotland, as joint partners in the insititution, had an unarguable right to use the pound if it so wished.

The programme also witnessed Lib Dem Secretary of State for Scotland, Michael Moore, appear to admit that a multi-option referendum had not been ruled out by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition.  Mr Moore, when pressed over his own consultation document that invites input on more than one question, answered that a single question was merely his “preferred” option.

The admission by Mr Moore now places the coalition alongside the Scottish Government who have also expressed a preference for one question – independence, yes or no – but have refused to rule out a third option appearing on the ballot paper.  This weekend saw several respected figures from Civic Scotland enter the debate by insisting a third option of devo-max should be on offer in 2014.

The SNP will publish their own consultation on January 25th and will invite input from all sections of Scottish society.

[Newsnet Scotland, in recognition that the referendum debate has begun in earnest, has added a new section to our main menu – the ‘Referendum’ section will contain articles and opinion pieces relevant to Scotland’s forthcoming historic ballot.  It will also, we hope, allow readers and visitors to catch up on stories and articles they may have previously missed.]

164 COMMENTS

  1. Nice try though! More votes for Independence as a result! The anti-independence mob are doing our work for us!

  2. Nice try though! More votes for Independence as a result! The anti-independence mob are doing our work for us!

    • [quote name=”Welsh Sion”]An article for you all:

      Thanks you Sion for flagging up the article by Neal Ascherson. He was heavily involved in reporting on Scottish politics during the previous referendums in Scotland and his fine article show him to be very well informed. His prediction that this weekend would see the launch of an independent campaign based in Edinburgh was bang on the money with Joyce MacMillan and Ben Thomson delivering a powerful reply to Cameron and Milliband’s one question referendum pitch shows that he is still well informed and well connected to the Scottish political scene. You’re doing a good job Sion and it’s much appreciated.

    • “Spain, for instance, grants full internal self-government, including taxation powers, to the Basque country and Catalonia.”

      No, no, completely untrue: Catalonia does not have FFA, the Basque country does. There’s a vast difference. An extraordinary mistake for a political commentator to make.

      Much as I admire this author, I despair at the ignorance of UK commentators about the situation in Spain. Even a glance at Wikipedia would put them right.

      It is nothing like the situation in the UK, it is very much worse. I do wish poeople would stop using it as a model for anything positive!

  3. sounds like Westminster will do anything to reduce the yes vote by denying access to the electrol roll but thing is nobody is buying that and again it demonstrates Westminster is looking for ways to wriggle into the referendum for Scottish independance like a oil slick salesman will say anything to benefit himself!

  4. sounds like Westminster will do anything to reduce the yes vote by denying access to the electrol roll but thing is nobody is buying that and again it demonstrates Westminster is looking for ways to wriggle into the referendum for Scottish independance like a oil slick salesman will say anything to benefit himself!

  5. Every time the CoLaDem coalition come up with a wizard wheeze, Salmond sidesteps it neatly and points out where they have got it wrong. It’s either divine intervention, or just the sign of an exceedingly adept politician who has the full measure of every last one of his opponents.

  6. Every time the CoLaDem coalition come up with a wizard wheeze, Salmond sidesteps it neatly and points out where they have got it wrong. It’s either divine intervention, or just the sign of an exceedingly adept politician who has the full measure of every last one of his opponents.

  7. Is Mundell trying to be helpful, or like his Labour colleagues does he intend to try to stifle the will of the Scottish people? (It’s a rhetorical question 🙂 )

  8. Is Mundell trying to be helpful, or like his Labour colleagues does he intend to try to stifle the will of the Scottish people? (It’s a rhetorical question 🙂 )

  9. Mundell is a numpty of the highest order
    Someone should tell him as he is the only person who doesn’t know this

    • [quote name=”mato21″]Mundell is a numpty of the highest order
      Someone should tell him as he is the only person who doesn’t know this[/quote]

      LOL I know mato21.
      I am suprised that
      anybody actually voted for him
      as he is such an obvious twit

  10. Mundell is a numpty of the highest order
    Someone should tell him as he is the only person who doesn’t know this

  11. From the headline, it is NONSENSE !!

    The Unionist case is looking more like an Eastenders plot line or a Brian Rix farce, by the day.

    ps Not that I watch Eastenders, but the wife wont miss it. Blush blush blush.

  12. From the headline, it is NONSENSE !!

    The Unionist case is looking more like an Eastenders plot line or a Brian Rix farce, by the day.

    ps Not that I watch Eastenders, but the wife wont miss it. Blush blush blush.

  13. During last week’s Scottish Questions in the House of Coalition (now including Labour) Mundell was asked by Angus Robertson to name just one of the firms which he and other unionist MPs claim have expressed “concern” over investing or locating in Scotland, because of the “uncertainty” caused by the forthcoming independence referendum.

    Robertson then read out a list of the firms which have in fact either located in Scotland, or increased their already current location and involvement here. Incredibly Mundell blustered in reply that these firms have done so “DESPITE the uncertainty!”

    Obviously the silly wee man doesn’t understand the concept of irony, nor is he capable of recognising he had just disproved the myth of the unionists’ “uncertainty” claim. He could also have compounded his stupidity by quoting the ignoble Lard Fooks, “And they’re doing it deliberately!”

  14. During last week’s Scottish Questions in the House of Coalition (now including Labour) Mundell was asked by Angus Robertson to name just one of the firms which he and other unionist MPs claim have expressed “concern” over investing or locating in Scotland, because of the “uncertainty” caused by the forthcoming independence referendum.

    Robertson then read out a list of the firms which have in fact either located in Scotland, or increased their already current location and involvement here. Incredibly Mundell blustered in reply that these firms have done so “DESPITE the uncertainty!”

    Obviously the silly wee man doesn’t understand the concept of irony, nor is he capable of recognising he had just disproved the myth of the unionists’ “uncertainty” claim. He could also have compounded his stupidity by quoting the ignoble Lard Fooks, “And they’re doing it deliberately!”

  15. I have to admit that I find this constant pettifogging absolutely hilarious.
    If the Unionists cannot come up with any cogent arguments they deserve to lose.

  16. I have to admit that I find this constant pettifogging absolutely hilarious.
    If the Unionists cannot come up with any cogent arguments they deserve to lose.

  17. “Mr Salmond explained that the Bank of England was not owned by Mr Osborne and that Scotland, as joint partners in the insititution, had an unarguable right to use the pound if it so wished.”

    I posted this link on another thread, but think it’s important enough to add it again here. A post-independence Scotland would own a share of the Bank of England. See Stephen Noon’s blog . . .

    http://stephennoon.blogspot.com/2012/01/fair-shares.html

    Jake

  18. “Mr Salmond explained that the Bank of England was not owned by Mr Osborne and that Scotland, as joint partners in the insititution, had an unarguable right to use the pound if it so wished.”

    I posted this link on another thread, but think it’s important enough to add it again here. A post-independence Scotland would own a share of the Bank of England. See Stephen Noon’s blog . . .

    http://stephennoon.blogspot.com/2012/01/fair-shares.html

    Jake

  19. I don’t understand this. The SNP has the full electoral roll as far as I know – all political parties have. I’ve just finished going through a marked-up register of 16,000 voters in my area, updating the SNP computer register recording who turned out to vote last May. It certainly wasn’t missing 27% of my neighbours! It was a photocopy of the register the polling clerks were ticking off at the time.

    So is that idiot Mundell (I didn’t vote for him) saying a Holyrood-sponsored referendum wouldn’t be allowed to use that information? Because Westminster would prevent it?

    I knew he was stupid, I live in his constituency so the point can scarcely have escaped me, but I didn’t realise quite HOW stupid.

    This is getting fun.

    – you must have the referendum within 18 months
    – we won’t let you use the pound
    – we’re charge you our expenses for removing Trident
    – we won’t let you use the electoral register.

    What will they think of next?

    • [quote]What will they think of next?[/quote]

      I suspect it will be something along the lines of: ‘We wont let you use the public toilets’

      This would certainly be in line with the level of the debate emanating from the Unionist side.

    • [quote]What will they think of next?[/quote]

      I suspect it will be something along the lines of: ‘We wont let you use the public toilets’

      This would certainly be in line with the level of the debate emanating from the Unionist side.

  20. I don’t understand this. The SNP has the full electoral roll as far as I know – all political parties have. I’ve just finished going through a marked-up register of 16,000 voters in my area, updating the SNP computer register recording who turned out to vote last May. It certainly wasn’t missing 27% of my neighbours! It was a photocopy of the register the polling clerks were ticking off at the time.

    So is that idiot Mundell (I didn’t vote for him) saying a Holyrood-sponsored referendum wouldn’t be allowed to use that information? Because Westminster would prevent it?

    I knew he was stupid, I live in his constituency so the point can scarcely have escaped me, but I didn’t realise quite HOW stupid.

    This is getting fun.

    – you must have the referendum within 18 months
    – we won’t let you use the pound
    – we’re charge you our expenses for removing Trident
    – we won’t let you use the electoral register.

    What will they think of next?

  21. Are we going to have another 1000 days of this, “the positive unionist case”.
    1. It’s our pound so you cant use it.
    2. You’ll need to pay for a new Trident base in England when Faslane is scrapped.
    3. You can’t use the full voters roll for the referendum.

    Maybe the state sponsored broadcaster could commission a new comedy programme to run with the daily outbursts of these gowpin’ eejits. I’m no broadcasting guru but how about ‘Reporting Scotland’ as a working title.

    • [quote name=”gr0uch0″] I’m no broadcasting guru but how about ‘Reporting Scotland’ as a working title.[/quote]

      or perhaps

      “Scotland Reporting”

  22. Are we going to have another 1000 days of this, “the positive unionist case”.
    1. It’s our pound so you cant use it.
    2. You’ll need to pay for a new Trident base in England when Faslane is scrapped.
    3. You can’t use the full voters roll for the referendum.

    Maybe the state sponsored broadcaster could commission a new comedy programme to run with the daily outbursts of these gowpin’ eejits. I’m no broadcasting guru but how about ‘Reporting Scotland’ as a working title.

  23. If this is the intellectual level we are dealing with then we have nothing to worry about. At this level Mr. Salmond will spit them out like grains of sand.
    Come to think of it, perhaps that’s all Mundell has for brains, grains of sand ?.

  24. If this is the intellectual level we are dealing with then we have nothing to worry about. At this level Mr. Salmond will spit them out like grains of sand.
    Come to think of it, perhaps that’s all Mundell has for brains, grains of sand ?.

  25. Mundell, Osborne et al by their ill-conceived arguments and attempted obstacles are providing proof to the electorate that really they aren’t quite up to the job, and Scotland would be better done with them.
    Moore does seem to be adopting a conciliatory stance.
    Question: Shouldn’t the Secretary of State for Scotland report to the First Minister of Scotland? And so be his eyes and ears in the UK cabinet? Seems a more regular management structure. After independence Moore could well retain his job, reporting back on the policy deliberations of our “partnership” Bank of England?

  26. Mundell, Osborne et al by their ill-conceived arguments and attempted obstacles are providing proof to the electorate that really they aren’t quite up to the job, and Scotland would be better done with them.
    Moore does seem to be adopting a conciliatory stance.
    Question: Shouldn’t the Secretary of State for Scotland report to the First Minister of Scotland? And so be his eyes and ears in the UK cabinet? Seems a more regular management structure. After independence Moore could well retain his job, reporting back on the policy deliberations of our “partnership” Bank of England?

  27. Cameron claimed that the SNP were concentrating on the process because they were scared to get into the substance of the debate. This is yet another prime example that he’s telling porkies. Reading stuff like this just makes me want to get rid of the union sooner. Now please!

    • Cameron really should have more respect for himself. He is making himself look like a fool.

      He appears to be trying to sell beads to the natives.

  28. Cameron claimed that the SNP were concentrating on the process because they were scared to get into the substance of the debate. This is yet another prime example that he’s telling porkies. Reading stuff like this just makes me want to get rid of the union sooner. Now please!

  29. Don’t even get me started on Ozzy’s threats that we can’t use sterling post independence.

    O/t has anyone read Darling’s comments about how everything would go belly up after independence? He was saying that if we used sterling post independence we’d be in the position that the eurozone is now ie not able to set our own interest rates etc.

    • Hi Claude,

      That struck me too. Yes he is correct. If we were in the Euro, we would not be able to fix our own interest rates. It would be done for us by the European Central Bank. Not like now where the Scottish Parliament sets the rates for the Bank of England. Eh? He’s a numpty!

      Regards,

      • Hi RaboRuglen

        He certainly is. Although he’s smart enough to have refused to head the no campaign. So far anyway…

        That strikes me as being a very poisoned chalice and I wonder whose going to be foolish enough to take it!

        • Did you not know Ed nominated The Lamentable one heard him this morning She may not know it yet and he also said she was ELOQUENT I think he may just have learnt how to say that word and wanted to try it out. It certainly isn’t an adjective I would use to describe the scowler

    • [quote name=”Clawd Baws”]Don’t even get me started on Ozzy’s threats that we can’t use sterling post independence.

      O/t has anyone read Darling’s comments about how everything would go belly up after independence? He was saying that if we used sterling post independence we’d be in the position that the eurozone is now ie not able to set our own interest rates etc.[/quote]

      Sorry. Is this the boy that refused to regulate the banks and destroyed the econonomy aye?

      Yes. People are seriously going to listen to this rambling numpty.

  30. When Moore announced that his consultative document had been published, I e-mailed the Scotland Office to ask where I could obtain a copy since I was anxious to participate. Several days later I have yet to receive a reply. Is circulation restricted? I think we should be told.

    • [quote name=”birnie”]When Moore announced that his consultative document had been published, I e-mailed the Scotland Office to ask where I could obtain a copy since I was anxious to participate. Several days later I have yet to receive a reply. Is circulation restricted? I think we should be told.[/quote]

      Birnie, the document is here,
      http://www.scotlandoffice.gov.uk/scotlandoffice/files/17779-Cm-8203.pdf
      and they do ask for peoples’ views. I copied and pasted the questions and replied in an email. I think Moore actually is being quite sensible and sober, and they have left out the time limit for the present.

    • Birnie,

      You can download the consultation document from the Scotland Office website. It’s impartially called “Scotland’s constitutional future – A consultation on facilitating a legal, fair and decisive referendum on whether Scotland should leave the United Kingdom. I encourage everyone to reply to the questions posed before the deadline of 9 Mar 12

  31. The nastiness has commenced. Tom Harris on you tube, and hacking into Nicola Sturgeon’s twitter account and others

    • Hi clootie,

      You are right to be worried. They can’t [u]all[/u] be that thick. Hope just enough of them are, for our purposes to succeed.

      Regards,

  32. Nobody can hack into my Twitter account as I don’t have one and never will. Trivial nonsense !. Does David Mundane have one, it would suit his intellect ?.

  33. The public have full access to the Electoral Roll. You can view your Regional Electoral Roll at your local council or your local library. Is George Foulkes going to be putting forward an amendement to the Scotland Bill blocking access to the Electoral Roll and council/libraries?

    • [quote name=”Islegard”]The public have full access to the Electoral Roll. You can view your Regional Electoral Roll at your local council or your local library. Is George Foulkes going to be putting forward an amendement to the Scotland Bill blocking access to the Electoral Roll and council/libraries?[/quote]

      The next mental amandmet that foulksie boy will make is for the removal of oxygen North of the boarder. Seriously. Is there a limit on how many amendments can be made to a bill? Otherwise it’s gonna be such a garbled, random bit of legislation. It deserves one thing. Thrown out on its ear.

      • I’m no longer sure what the Bill actually looks like anymore. Their lardships have inserted so many clauses all stripping away more powers and responsibilities. The Bill no longer resembles the shambles it was to start with. Not for the better.

  34. .O/T
    So no one is interested in Scotland they tell us

    Swinney to hold trade talks with Russian ambassador

    Trade between the two nations is growing, with whisky sales alone earning Scotland £31m in 2010

    The talks will be the first direct discussions on trade, investment and greater collaboration between the two countries.

    • Maybe in the light of Westminster saying Scotland would have to pay for Tridents relocation. He could ask the Russian ambassador if Russia would would like to pay the relocation costs to Vladivostok?

  35. From The Press Association:

    [i]Appearing on the BBC’s Politics Scotland show, Mr Moore was asked: “Do you accept that Scotland has the legal right to continue using sterling post independence? That cannot be in dispute.”

    He replied: “If that is part of the deal that the independence section of the debate wanted – I don’t think there’s a legal problem with that.

    “But you do have to very quickly think about the consequences of who would set interest rates, about what it would mean for your spending plans and your borrowing plans and routinely when I’ve heard senior nationalists, including the First Minister asked about this point, they don’t actually get onto that.

    “What would be the point in setting yourself up as a foreign country with less influence over that interest rate setting policy than you do at the present time when you’re part of that country.”[/i]

    Yet another admission which undermine’s Osborne’s credibility.

    Micius Mucius looks for all the world like the sorcerer’s apprentice, well out of his depth and who keeps getting whacked by the hard reality of his meddling with the facts.

    And what does he mean by ‘a foreign country’?
    Echoes of empire days? We already are a different country.

  36. I have discovered a cure for insomnia order your CD now, listen and nod of to the monotones of Mickey Moor BOGOF 99p

  37. Since ALL Tory, Labour and Libdem MPs (and their ermine vermin counterparts in the House of Lords) will lose their cushy jobs when Scotland becomes independent – should they not all declare a vested interest in the procedings and be disallowed from participating ?

  38. Who plays poker best

    No10 says PM will meet F.M Arrangements will be made in the coming days but P.M says F.M should meet Moore first

    We’ll see

    • I think Salmond just has to get on with his original plan and ignore Moore unless he is sitting beside the PM at a meeting.

  39. Coalition concessions so far;

    1. Date of the referendum – 2nd half of SNP term.

    2. Multi-option referendum – Devo-Max.

    3. The £

    4. The Electoral Commission in Scotland to be under the control of the Scottish government.

    5. An advisory referendum is politically and constitutionally definitive.

  40. Absolutley hilarious video from taiwan
    must watch!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DYiIiXjjEcjE&v=YiIiXjjEcjE&gl=US
    Scottish independence: Salmond,
    Cameron loch horns over referendum

    also David Cameron at it again dictating who Alex salmond should see now another do what your told moment from head imperialist unionist!

    and in the meeting with the unionists listen to all there so called offers then Alex salmond should quote the line ” the Scottish people are not for turning ” and get it right up yae!

  41. Can someone tell me the argument about setting interest rates should Scotland retain Sterling to begin with. What is the actual situation regards that? Is that true?

  42. Matt Qvortrup states quite unequivocally that Westminster, the courts and the Supreme Court are irrelevant. This view, which also confirms that a vote for independence would be enough for other states to respect the view of the Scottish people and welcome us to the international community. Mundell is simply miles off the mark with his creation of problems which are mere legal niceties at most. Qvortrup’s recent article can be viewed here: http://www.scotsman.com/news/cartoon/dr_matt_qvortrup_scotland_does_not_need_permission_to_go_it_alone_1_2047506

  43. in the beginning we will keep the sterling with bank of England setting the rate but remember the boe isn’t English its the UKs bank even though it has that name and it was established and independent and founded by a Scotsman before even westminister was formed also the sterling isn’t English currency (though they are pretending now) it is a UK currency and after independance a true bank of Scotland will be established who will eventually take over if the people decide (a couple years probably) then the choices of Scottish notes, euro or staying with sterling will be decided in a referendum there will also be a referendum on the eu or efta which will finally establish our country! now I know most people will say whats the point but I would think after over 300 years tied into an unwanted union (let’s be fair it WAS not voted into by the people but a few parcel of rogues who wanted to clear there debts and was lured by luxury promises) we need to take small steps to finally establish ourselves after independance! I say after independance it will truly start to define what country we are and who we want to be! (not war lovers like westminister) it will eventually come all good because we will finally be a nation who makes all the decisions and encourage investment unlike London who steal investment by having lower corporation tax in London then westminister not allowing lower corporation tax anywhere outside London!

    • “remember the boe isn’t English its the UKs bank” We wouldn’t be in th UK so that wouldn’t be relevant surely.

      • But we would be entitled to a share of it if we became independent as we would be entitled to a share of UK asserts such as embassies etc. If we take our share of the liabilities then we also get a share of the assets.

      • Salmond explained it all today. He said Osborne could not stop Scotland from using Sterling. Other countries are already linked to the £. The BoE would set interest rates, but this would be compensated for because the Scottish government can make appropriate adjustments when they have the powers to do so.

      • Well yes we would. The bit that tell the story is the king in kingdom. It refers to a common monarch and we will still have the same monarch. What we would NOT be in is The Parliament of The UK of GB & NI. Thing is neither would England, Wales or Northern Ireland. The Treaty of Union was only signed by Scotland & England. Originally all Ireland was under the English crown and Wales, to this day is under the English crown as the Prince of Wales wears the Welsh crown but, as he is a subject of his mother, Wales comes under the English crown. So only two sovereign nations joined together to form the Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain. It was not until 1800 that Ireland signed a Treaty of union, but that was with the existing union and not with either Scotland or England. Then we had The Irish Free State that was a dominion of the Parliament of the UK of GB. Then The Irish Free State broke away and became the Republic of Ireland. The Title of the Parliament of the UK adopted the title of, “The Parliament of the UK og GB & NI. However, the original Treaty Of Union in 1707 was signed ONLY by England & Scotland. It is that treaty that will be ditched if Scotland pulls out. Contrary to what Wastemonster tells everyone that means that there will be no rump UK parliament but there will still be a united kingdom while we retain the same monarch. Now, as there is no English Parliament, and no longer a Parliament of the UK of GB & NI then England has no elected parliament. The Commons belongs to the union formed by Scotland & England. What is more England has no treasury as that too belongs to the original Parliament of the UK of GB formed with England & Scotland. Scotland, though does have a parliament as has Wales and Northern Ireland. England does not even have the Bank of England as that was taken into public ownership by the Parliament of the UK of GB & NI in 1946. So no Westminster Parliament, the building was purpose built with tax money from the original two country union after the old building burned to the ground so even that does not belong to England alone. Can you see now why Wastemonster is at sixes and sevens running around like a headless chicken. The beauty is that the Declaration of Arbroath is an international document and ratified by the then World authority and it declares Scotland a sovereign but more than that it accepts that the Scottish people are sovereign and not the monarch. It states that the people choosde the monarch and can sack the monarch and choose another. However, England’s monarch is head of state and all things English are the crowns by divine right of kings. Both Countries are, though, constitutional monarchies. That means the sovereigns power is ceeded to the elected parliament, so in England the elected parliament has the monarch’s power but, as we Scots are sovereign our parliament is given the power of the people who retain the right to choose our leader and to sack her/him. All this blethers being pumped out bt Wastemonster just now is meaningless and cannot be backed up by either English or Scottish law and international law must uphold the international treaties. Goodf isn’t it?

        • Could I suggest you send this to every SNP MSP and stress that they should read it over and over till they’re word perfect We would then not have to listen to the dependents spewing garbage

        • I disagree about your United Kingdom assertion. Scotland and England will not be one kingdom, they will be two kingdoms with a shared monarch. They will therefore be (as they were before 1707) united kingdom[b][u]s[/u][/b]. There will be no United Kingdom, only the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland (with the same person occupying the throne of both).

    • So Clegg’s telling Alex to liaise with Moore was right on the button? Maybe Martin McGuinness had a word with Clegg about Monkeys and Organgrinders.

    • Here’s the PA copy

      Cameron and Salmond set for talks
      (UKPA) – 36 minutes ago

      David Cameron is to meet Alex Salmond to discuss plans for a referendum on Scottish independence, it has been announced.

      Downing Street said arrangements for the meeting between the Prime Minister and Scottish First Minister would be made “in the coming days”.

      With the UK Government and the Scottish National Party’s Holyrood administration at loggerheads over the details of a referendum, Mr Salmond called on Friday for talks with Mr Cameron.

      Scottish Secretary Michael Moore has in turn asked Mr Salmond for a meeting in Edinburgh this Thursday – an invitation that has not been accepted so far.

      A Number 10 spokesman said: “The Prime Minister has made it clear he is happy to meet Alex Salmond and arrangements for that will be made in the coming days.

      “However, he also believes the First Minister should accept the invitation to meet the Secretary of State for Scotland on Thursday to discuss his views on the consultation process.”

      • In fact the SNP has called six times for meetings with the Westminster PM and all requests were turned down. BTW: another, “FACT”, that both the Scottish and Westminster lot are attempting to distort is that the SNP have not published any details. That is not true as they published full data long ago ant it has been there to read for all who bothered. All details of what they want done about the nukes, the submarines, the forces, the oil & gas, The Crown estates et al. are all there for anyone who wants to read them

        • It sounds exactly like Brown refusing to congratulate Salmond in 2007 and Blair ignoring him too.

          “He never phones”.

  44. just heard the bbc talking about new technology like Google tv and ended the piece with we are no longer in the good old days when tv was decided for you! just shows you the bbc are still living in the 1930’s and hate that there dominance in propaganda programming is over!

  45. This saga is better than a night at the Kings theatre watching the Krankies.

    Mundell is one of the most condescending politicians there are.

    http://tiny.cc/46li5

    He appears to have had a wee accident here. Could it be the Aunty effect?

    • Great picture but Ilike this part of the text

      One tory source said, “Mundell is not Cabinet-level material, but getting rid of him presents the problem of a viable alternative.” David Mundell has been the only tory MP in Scotland since 2005 an
      therefore will naturally expect the promotion and he must be choking on his cornflakes to read today’s Sunday Herald

      Whoever the spokesman was they certainly knew what they were talking about

        • [quote name=”J Wil”]If they get rid of Mundell they may have to send back one of the panda’s, they are so closely linked.[/quote]

          ————————————

          I hear that the pandas have offered the Tories a share of the new enclosure at Edinburgh zoo for Mr Mundell in view of the fact they he is an endangered species in Scotland.

          Read it in black and white

          A Frowning Street spokesperson says ‘We are considering the offer but is the enclosure big enough to take Mr Moore as well’.

    • “The Tories would be lucky to return Scottish MP’s!!!!” 6 they will be lucky to return 1. What a strange thing to say where did they get a ridiculous figure like that?

      • Sorry if it is unclear this was an article from before the general election when they expected to win It relates to the link given by Donaldmhor above my reply

        It just struck me as appropriate since we were speculating on wee Mundys intellect

    • I have a wee garden Gnome that fell over and got cracked that is the spit of Mundell. Mind you it has more sense than Mundell and is at least useful for something. If someone stuch a wee spade in his hand as he sat looking stupid on the goverenment benches he would really look the part.

      • Oh Bob these refined folk don’t dae things like that, it’s just the likes of us common5/8s that are guilty of such indiscretions

  46. How many countries still use Sterling as their currency?

    What happens about interest rates in these countries/

    What happened when Australia and New Zealand flew the coup? Did they use Sterling for a time ands if so what about the interest rates during that period?

    • [quote name=”Legerwood”]How many countries still use Sterling as their currency?
      [/quote]

      Ireland used Sterling for over 50 years.

      • Ireland had the Irish pound or punt which was pegged to the pound sterling (GBP). They would accept GBP on a one for one basis. They decimalised their currency at the same time as the UK.

        In the late 1970s Ireland joined the European Exchange rate mechanism and from that point onwards the link with Sterling was broken and Ireland set up its own centre for printing its own notes and producing its own coins. Previously this had been done in the UK.

        BUT were their interest rates set by the Bank of England as politicians are claiming will be the case if Scotland uses the pound after independence.

        From what I have found out about the Sterling ares – the group of countries that used the GBP or pegged their own currenc cy to it – I have seen no mention of the BOE setting their interest rates.

        The Sterling are seemed to more about exchange rates – pegged to the pound – keeping reserves in the BOE in GBP and management of these reserves. I have not seen any reference to the BOE having any say over the actual interest rates in the countries of the Sterling area.

        Furthermore it was possible for countries to discount their currency against the GBP. For example, Australia in the 1930s.

        So if Scotland uses the GBP would the Bank of England have any say over the interest rates in Scotland?

        Where is our economic guru when you need him?

      • I lived in NI at the time and you could use any pound notes including Bank of Ireland, Ulster Bank, AIB, as well as Isle of Man. Irish copper coins were in circulation in NI at a time when everybody in Scotland was feart tae have an Irish coin mixed in with their change.

        The Manx pound is still in use.

  47. Right…. this is the new possitive me after the SNP Roadshow tonight.

    I just have to say that I am looking forward to Scotland moving forward to a bright future full of opportunity and success. *;0)

    Ps. Someone gave NNS a wee mention in a question on the hostile media.

    • [quote name=”Alba4Eva”]Right…. this is the new possitive me after the SNP Roadshow tonight.[/quote]

      what ?
      Where ?
      brief run down please.

  48. If Tony Blair’s Supreme Court rules that it would be illegal for The Scottish Government to hold a referendum and the Government ignores the ruling and goes ahead can we expect a posse of Westminster’s equivalent of The Texas Rangers to come riding over the border and drag Eck off in chains to The Tower of London?

    Given that by the day the nonsense spouted by Unionist Politicians becomes progressively more and more ridiculous and provocative it could possibly indicate that there may be something in the view held by some that The Tories actually want Scotland to be Independent.

    • gus1940.

      You really need to try to understand the position with regard to this matter.

      Here is my short primer, hope it helps, see also the posts by Auld Bob and others.

      1.The treaty of union was agreed between commissioners for the Parliaments of Scotland and England, and thereafter ratified by the two Parliaments.

      2. Acts of Union were passed separately by both Parliaments to bring the UK Parliament into existence.

      3. The UK Parliament has no legal authority to alter or repeal the treaty, which remains a treaty in international law.

      4. The UK Supreme Court as an institution of the UK Parliament has no legal authority over the treaty that brought the UK Parliament into existence.

      5. The treaty must therefore be referred back to representatives of the original contracting parties, with appropriate international oversight; it is not simply a matter for UK domestic law.

      [I’m no expert on this by the way, just educating myself on the subject]

    • Of course they do not. As I’ve said so many times, the reality that they are attempting to smokescreen is that as there were only two equal sovereign nations that signed the international treaty that is the Union of the Parliaments, 1707 then, if any one of the two divorces the other then there is no United Kingdom Parliament left for them to inhaabit. Then, as England has no parliament, and the election that put them into Westminster was for election to a now defunct parliament there will be no legal Members of an English Parliament to organise and run an election to an English Parliament. The obvious thing is that even after a Westminste election is counted up the standard way is for her majesty to call in someone, (not necessarily the leader of the largest party), and ask that person to form Her Majesty’s Goverenment. That is where the catch comes in. As I’ve so often pointed out in England the monarch is head of state by the divine right of kings and is sovereign, that means everything in England, including her majesty’s subjects belongs to the sovereign but in a constitutional monarchy her/his elected parliament takes over the sovereinghty to run the country. Not so in Scotland for the people of Scotland are soverein and can choose their monarch and sack their monarch. When they give their mandate to an elected goverenment it needs no monarch to appoint those elected persons to be the goverenment. That is why the present Scottish goverenment must legally have the power to run Scotland for the Scots have not given a mandate to the goverenment at Westminster. There are 11 Lib-Dem MPs and one Conservative MP in Westminster out of 59 total of 59 Scottish MPs. Certainly not enough to claim a mandate of any kind.

      • Auld Bob
        “Of course they do not. As I’ve said so many times, the reality that they are attempting to smokescreen is that as there were only two equal sovereign nations that signed the international treaty that is the Union of the Parliaments, 1707 then, if any one of the two divorces the other then there is no United Kingdom Parliament left for them to inhaabit. Then, as England has no parliament, and the election that put them into Westminster was for election to a now defunct parliament there will be no legal Members of an English Parliament to organise and run an election to an English Parliament”

        I find this a fascinating scenario…would the westminster parliament then have to be dissolved and a general election called?
        Also if that would be the case in westminster ..would it also be the case in hollyrood?

        Please bear with me Auld Bob I am new to all this but have been enthralled by your posts recently on these important matters.

        P.S. I have just read your next post and it goes some way to answer my question…that’ll teach me to dive in too quickly….

    • [quote name=”gus1940″]If Tony Blair’s Supreme Court rules that it would be illegal for The Scottish Government to hold a referendum and the Government ignores the ruling and goes ahead can we expect a posse of Westminster’s equivalent of The Texas Rangers to come riding over the border and drag Eck off in chains to The Tower of London?[/quote]

      Only one tory here
      mundell – the alone ranger

  49. Dear Blubber

    What will the impact on England’s credit rating be if Scotland dissolves the Treaty of Union and takes the oil revenue from its own territorial waters ?

    • [quote name=”govanite”]Dear Blubber

      What will the impact on England’s credit rating be if Scotland dissolves the Treaty of Union and takes the oil revenue from its own territorial waters ?[/quote]

      ———————————
      To quote a labour person recently in the ‘house’

      ‘Who cares?’

      ——————————-

      However there will be a bit of bridge building to do the people down South don’t deserve to be cut adrift completely

      Anyhoo! They may learn from our example and grow a pair.

    • He won’t answer but I will. England does not have a credit rating as England has neither a treasury nor a parliament. Both belong to the UK. Furthermore, England does not have a national bank as the UK nationalised the Bank Of England in 1946.

      That being so, and because there can be no rumpUK if one of only two of the partners pulls out, they will not be legally able to form a legal English parliament to deal with Scotland, or the World, un til they have a legal general election to choose a new set of representatives in whatever they choose to be the English parliament. Even the present Westminster buildings do not belong to England as the United Kingdom Parliament had the Houses Of Parliament built with UK taxpayers money after the original building burned to the ground. Ironically the fire is said to have been caused by a stove used to burn the wooden Tally Sticks then used to cast votes. Only a very small part of the original Westminster Palace remained after the fire. Add to all that the fact that the Whitehall buildings were also built/bought or maintained with UK taxpayers money and you just may begin to picture the true facts. These are far from the image that the Westminster Mafia are projecting as the facts. To listen to them yopu would think England were the master race and the rest of the UK countries owned nothing. Every single thing from the speakers chair to the most expensive picture in the national picture gallery to the gifts given to the royal family through the years belongs to the United Kingdom and thus to us all. Then they claim that things would be settled on a per capitas basis but that is not cut in stone for the two sovereign countries that signed the Treaty of union in 1707 did so as equal sovereign states. English law may claim what it likes but that does not mean it will be accepted as right by the international courts who must be called upon to rule on who owes what to who. After all there is no English parliamentarians to put forward their case.

  50. Dear Govan
    Will you stop bothering me I answered your questions the other night and you did not reply to my appeal for benevolance from you when the hard times come, as they surely will

    Toodle-oo-the-noo Flubber with blubber

    • Dear Blubber

      My particular concern is that the British Broadcasting Corporation, for which I pay my tax, seems to miss a great deal of stories related to the constitutional debate.
      There appears to be a lot more detailed information available on the internet. It has to be said, much of it is damaging to the unionist case.

      • Dear Govan
        Why do you think we would report anything detrimental to the Unionists after all we are in their camp
        Exactly what do you expect these days for £152 or whatever it is,I cannot even afford to keep my blog open so you’ll just have to take what I say as gospel, what would you do with ther truth if I told you? apart from causing me more grief

        Toodle-OO-The Noo Blubber with flubber

  51. Dear Blubber

    Do you agree with Peter Preston of the Guardian that BBC Scotland may find it awkward to present neutral coverage of the referendum campaign, since the British Broadcasting Corporation is answerable to the British government ?

    • Err No! Officially the Beeb is answerable to the people who pay the license fee. They have the BBC trust who are supposed to speak for the viewer/listener but these too seem biased in only one direction. There are also independent listener/viewer panels but these are little known about by those they represent.

  52. David Mundell has never struck me as being the sharpest tool in the box so the fact that the Scots government has dismissed his claim outright is no surprise.

    There is now no doubt that this daily scaremongering is an act of desperation by the unionist camp because they are devoid of legitimate arguments to persuade Scots to vote to remain in the union.

    • It seems Muddle would prefer to deny these voters their chance to vote. Seems like a banana republic he’s looking for.

      Does anyone think he sounds like Larry the Lamb ?

  53. Mr. Salmond ought not to meet with Michael Moore. This is just more of the sort of stuff we have had for a century or more where Scotland has been treated like a northern English County. It may be alright to meet with Moore after he has met with Cameron, but certainly not before.
    If I want more milk from my farmer I talk to the farmer-I don’t talk to the flippin’ coo.

    • [i]”Mr. Salmond ought not to meet with Michael Moore.”[/i]

      Not unless he is sitting beside Cameron. He can be asked to pass the sugar and milk.

    • [quote name=”Talorcan”]Mr. Salmond ought not to meet with Michael Moore. This is just more of the sort of stuff we have had for a century or more where Scotland has been treated like a northern English County. It may be alright to meet with Moore after he has met with Cameron, but certainly not before.
      If I want more milk from my farmer I talk to the farmer-I don’t talk to the flippin’ coo.[/quote]

      Is this now the time to have our own foreign secreatary type ministerial role? That way The FM can meest with the PM and we have someone of equal ministerial rank to meet the like of moore. This way, the FM is not ssen as pandering to a lower ranking minister if and when they come calling.

      • We do not want to foster a class system surely It’s OK to be too busy to meet him We mustn’t forget about oor faither Jock Tamson

  54. Oh dear…

    Just read a Tweet from Carolyn Quinn of the BBC’s Westminster Hour programme…

    “Tom Harris MP has had to pull out of our panel chat tonight. “a little local difficulty over a spoof Downfall video”.. http://fb.me/1yO6n8fA2

    This is on R4 at 10pm.. Might be worth a listen ..

    • “The poverty campaigner who walked away with £500k of poor kids’ cash”

      I was about to say ‘unbelievable’ but unfortunately it is all too typical….what the f=== is going on with these people?

      (Three of the five GERA directors who approved the Saez deal were Labour councillors in Glasgow. The GERA chair was James Coleman, a former deputy council leader; the vice-chair was Councillor Catherine McMaster; and the third councillor was George Redmond, who signed off the accounts last month.

      Since leaving GERA, Saez has set himself up as a consultant, briefly going into business with Frank McAveety, the former Labour MSP.

      Opposition parties last night called for the charity watchdog, the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator (OSCR), to investigate.)
      I hope there is a proper investigation into this .

  55. Dear Govan
    What? What? BBC, Me, not neutral
    I cannot believe you would think that of me, who has unselfishly given you the best years of my life The pounds I have put on dining at your expense when all I craved was a wee bit salad
    The ridiculous braces I’ve worn to brighten your day when I had to report how Iain had mauled Alex (again)
    My incandescence knows no rage at your totally unfounded assertion

    Tootle-OO-The_Noo Flubber with Blubber

    • Nah! We all know the braces are because the shape of your belly either forced your belt downwards and exposed your political preferences or forced it upward and caused you great pain by compressing your voteing intentions.

  56. David – hour by hour, day by day, week by week your doing more work for Independence that only you will know, come the time.

    ” Unite us, Unite the Clans “

    Saor Alba

    • Check yesterday’s Sunday Herald for the latest Labour corruption scandal in Glasgow. Half a million payout to party aparatchik!

    • Check yesterday’s Sunday Herald for the latest Labour corruption scandal in Glasgow. Half a million payout to party aparatchik!

  57. [b]Farrochie[/b]. I spent some time in French Flanders in a hotel from which we journeyed across the border to Ypres in Belgium to visit the war museum. There were, on most days we crossed over, no border guards at all and there was a free flow of commercial and private cars and trucks.

    Only once was I stopped by a very polite gendarme who waved us through when I was able to say a few words in French to him. He explained that it was due to the GB numberplates.

    I don’t know how we would stand with one of us [b]in[/b] and the other state [b]out[/b] of the EU

  58. [b]Farrochie[/b]. I spent some time in French Flanders in a hotel from which we journeyed across the border to Ypres in Belgium to visit the war museum. There were, on most days we crossed over, no border guards at all and there was a free flow of commercial and private cars and trucks.

    Only once was I stopped by a very polite gendarme who waved us through when I was able to say a few words in French to him. He explained that it was due to the GB numberplates.

    I don’t know how we would stand with one of us [b]in[/b] and the other state [b]out[/b] of the EU

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