How will SNP decide the ‘wicked’ independence issues?

117
1802

Stephen Maxwellby Stephen Maxwell

Six weeks after SNP won an outright majority in the Scottish Parliament an outline of the Scottish Government’s preferred strategy for fighting the Independence referendum has begun to emerge.

The referendum will be held in the latter part of the exceptional five year life span that the Westminster coalition’s political self interest has conferred on the Scottish Parliament, probably in 2014/15.

The Scottish Government would like the referendum to be overseen not by the UK wide Electoral Commission but by a bespoke Scottish Referendum Commission which would apply rules on the funding and conduct of the campaign agreed by the Scottish Parliament. It tends to favour a three option question covering the post Calman status quo, full fiscal autonomy and independence. It will publish a white paper explaining its understanding of full fiscal autonomy and independence in good time to inform and influence the public debate.

The Scottish Government’s initial thoughts on the referendum are its alone. The SNP Manifesto made a commitment to holding a “democratic referendum” on independence but said nothing about the SNP’s preferred question or the organisation of the campaign. This leaves the Government free to decide for itself what proposals it will put to the Scottish Parliament. Or does it?.

The SNP election manifesto was officially the manifesto of the Scottish National Party not the manifesto of the SNP Government. The party’s constitutional pedants – and it has a few – can argue that where the Party makes an in principle commitment to a referendum it should be the party as whole acting through its elected delegates to National Assembly, National Council and National Conference and not the Scottish Government who should decide the particulars of the proposal to be presented to the Parliament. And of course they can cite the clauses of the party’s constitution which give the party members the right to decide party policy – clauses 9.1, 10.1 and 12.1. Where the policy to be determined emanates from the founding ambition of the party entrenched in the first clause of its constitution– the restoration of Scotland as a “sovereign independent nation” – then the party’s constitution mongers will likely have the sympathy of hundreds of activists who have spent years or decades arguing that case to their sceptical fellow citizens.

The fact that there is so much uncertainty about SNP’s current understanding of independence in an interdependent world is down to one main factor – the failure of SNP to invest time and effort reviewing and updating its understanding of independence as global conditions have changed. Since devolution SNP’s policy making has been steadily centralised away from the party’s policy bodies, first to the party’s Parliamentary leadership and then from 2007 to the Scottish Government and its SPADs – Special Policy Advisers. The party’s members are not generally invited to participate and through persistent discouragement no longer even demand to participate. It is difficult to identify a substantive policy proposal initiated by the Assembly, Council or Conference in the last several years which has been taken up by the leadership. But there are plenty examples of major initiatives which have been ignored or trivialised – for example a call by National Conference in 2001 for a comprehensive review of taxation restated at the 2005 Conference as a call for the establishment of an Independent Commission for Modern, Competitive Taxation for Scotland, a call for a Scottish Defence Review at the 2010 Campaign Conference, the call at National Council in spring 2010 for the development of a policy to ensure that the banks and financial services in an independent Scotland served the needs of Scotland’s businesses and communities rather than those of financial speculators. Typically major policies are now delivered ex cathedra by Cabinet Secretaries at Annual Conference with minimal input from the party and under the scrutiny of the national media minimal opportunity for any serious debate or dissent.

The prospect of a referendum creates an urgent need to revive the party’s capacity and appetite for policy debate. The case for independence will be the target of rolling barrages of critiques, scare stories and misinformation at all levels, from the UK and Scottish media to social networks, workplaces, constituencies and wards, all generously funded by the diverse vested interests of unionism. The party’s activists have a vital role in combating this assault – provided that they feel sufficiently informed of the facts and the arguments to take ownership of the case. And the first step towards activists acquiring that confidence is to reclaim their role in policy development.

Over the last several years the the SNP has made significant progress in answering some of the key questions about independence. Its economic case is clear and strong. It has a vision of a sustainable future for Scotland though one that still lacks focus in areas such as energy conservation. It has proved its competence in Government. If it has failed so far to provide an entirely coherent account of how its social democratic ambitions can be integrated with those of its neo- liberal economic instincts which have survived the global financial crisis – the Nordic – Ireland polarity – it has at least succeeded in dispatching the old Tartan Tories jibe to the footnotes of the Scottish debate.

But its prospectus for independence as laid out most recently in the Government’s summary of its National Conversation Your Scotland, Your Voice (Scottish Government 2009) still leaves key independence questions unresolved.

Take defence. SNP is committed to the removal of the UK’s strategic nuclear deterrent from Scottish territory. But in the interests of preserving Scottish jobs it also wants to retain access to UK defence contracts and to maintain RAF squadrons at Lossiemouth and Kinloss. In other words the Scottish upstart wants to pull the UK’s strategic comfort rug from under the old man’s feet and be paid for doing so.

The UK’s response will be predictable – we’ll take seriously your need for defencejobs if you take seriously our need for a nuclear base: you can’t have one without the other. The solution is a Scottish nuclear free defence strategy and budget based on

Nordic models identifying a budget for local defence procurement alongside the savings available to create alternative employment for any net loss of Scottish defence jobs. Or the currency. SNP’s monetary policy of staying with sterling until the conditions are right for a transfer to the Euro has been overtaken by the global financial crisis. In its original Maastricht version the Euro was never likely to provide Scotland with a comfortable billet. The northern European ‘hard’ Euro now in prospect would be an even more exacting taskmaster for a new member needing to catch up with a large backlog of social and infrastructure investment. For all but the very largest or economically fortunate economies the choice of monetary alignment is always difficult. The diversity of monetary arrangements adopted by the smaller developed countries – from Canada, New Zealand, Norway and Switzerland with their separate currencies, to Sweden and Denmark with their different opt -outs from the Eurozone, to Finland, Greece and Ireland as variously disgruntled Euro members – suggests that at the least Scotland needs to review its options.

Scotland’s membership of sterling or a hardened Eurozone would certainly limit her fiscal flexibility,in the case of sterling probably without any formal role in the governance of the currency. It might also limit the scope to rebuild a Scottish based banking sector. The increased supervision of banks which currency unions are introducing following the banking crisis will make it more difficult for Scotland to promote new Scottish owned banks, private or public, or to diversify the types of banks available. Could an independent Scotland operate effectively with a significantly sized locally owned banking sector under Scottish regulation?. Would the Scottish interest be better served by a separate system of banking and financial regulation than by sharing in the system favoured by sterling or an alternative currency union?.

Another wicked question likely to be thrown up by an independence referendum is pensions. While the issue is less technically complex there seems to be an almost complete lack of information available to party members on the allocation and funding base of the various pensions liabilities which an independent Scotland would inherit.

117 COMMENTS

  1. I await any discussion of devolving power to deal with applicants for residency or citizenship to the Scots Legal System.

  2. I await any discussion of devolving power to deal with applicants for residency or citizenship to the Scots Legal System.

  3. I await any discussion of devolving power to deal with applicants for residency or citizenship to the Scots Legal System.

  4. I await any discussion of devolving power to deal with applicants for residency or citizenship to the Scots Legal System.

  5. I await any discussion of devolving power to deal with applicants for residency or citizenship to the Scots Legal System.

  6. I await any discussion of devolving power to deal with applicants for residency or citizenship to the Scots Legal System.

  7. Major difficulties yesterday trying to log in. Thanks Newsnet for emailing me.

    Still working our way slowly up to Nordkapp, Norway, in the Highlander campervan.

    This country can teach us a lot about achieving independence (and I believe Stephen was learning Norwegian once. How did it go, Stephen?)

    Norway was regarded as one of Europe’s poor guys until they struck oil in the mid 70s. They have transformed their long boney country of 4.5 million.

    We are no strangers here but we are well and truly gobsmacked at the rich standard of living in evidence everywhere.
    The quality of lifestyle is remarkable.

    Many from our shockingly deprived communities in Scotland would think they had gone to heaven if they fetched up here for a short period.

    One of the most convincing tangible examples of how to manage your independence can be clearly demonstrated here in Norway. Get a camera crew over and shoot some film for a special programme: “This is what we mean by Independence!”

    Independent Norway does it’s own thing, makes it’s own treaty arrangements. Not in the EU (but gets a good deal) and, unlike the Swedes, is a member of Nato.

  8. Major difficulties yesterday trying to log in. Thanks Newsnet for emailing me.

    Still working our way slowly up to Nordkapp, Norway, in the Highlander campervan.

    This country can teach us a lot about achieving independence (and I believe Stephen was learning Norwegian once. How did it go, Stephen?)

    Norway was regarded as one of Europe’s poor guys until they struck oil in the mid 70s. They have transformed their long boney country of 4.5 million.

    We are no strangers here but we are well and truly gobsmacked at the rich standard of living in evidence everywhere.
    The quality of lifestyle is remarkable.

    Many from our shockingly deprived communities in Scotland would think they had gone to heaven if they fetched up here for a short period.

    One of the most convincing tangible examples of how to manage your independence can be clearly demonstrated here in Norway. Get a camera crew over and shoot some film for a special programme: “This is what we mean by Independence!”

    Independent Norway does it’s own thing, makes it’s own treaty arrangements. Not in the EU (but gets a good deal) and, unlike the Swedes, is a member of Nato.

  9. Major difficulties yesterday trying to log in. Thanks Newsnet for emailing me.

    Still working our way slowly up to Nordkapp, Norway, in the Highlander campervan.

    This country can teach us a lot about achieving independence (and I believe Stephen was learning Norwegian once. How did it go, Stephen?)

    Norway was regarded as one of Europe’s poor guys until they struck oil in the mid 70s. They have transformed their long boney country of 4.5 million.

    We are no strangers here but we are well and truly gobsmacked at the rich standard of living in evidence everywhere.
    The quality of lifestyle is remarkable.

    Many from our shockingly deprived communities in Scotland would think they had gone to heaven if they fetched up here for a short period.

    One of the most convincing tangible examples of how to manage your independence can be clearly demonstrated here in Norway. Get a camera crew over and shoot some film for a special programme: “This is what we mean by Independence!”

    Independent Norway does it’s own thing, makes it’s own treaty arrangements. Not in the EU (but gets a good deal) and, unlike the Swedes, is a member of Nato.

  10. Major difficulties yesterday trying to log in. Thanks Newsnet for emailing me.

    Still working our way slowly up to Nordkapp, Norway, in the Highlander campervan.

    This country can teach us a lot about achieving independence (and I believe Stephen was learning Norwegian once. How did it go, Stephen?)

    Norway was regarded as one of Europe’s poor guys until they struck oil in the mid 70s. They have transformed their long boney country of 4.5 million.

    We are no strangers here but we are well and truly gobsmacked at the rich standard of living in evidence everywhere.
    The quality of lifestyle is remarkable.

    Many from our shockingly deprived communities in Scotland would think they had gone to heaven if they fetched up here for a short period.

    One of the most convincing tangible examples of how to manage your independence can be clearly demonstrated here in Norway. Get a camera crew over and shoot some film for a special programme: “This is what we mean by Independence!”

    Independent Norway does it’s own thing, makes it’s own treaty arrangements. Not in the EU (but gets a good deal) and, unlike the Swedes, is a member of Nato.

  11. Major difficulties yesterday trying to log in. Thanks Newsnet for emailing me.

    Still working our way slowly up to Nordkapp, Norway, in the Highlander campervan.

    This country can teach us a lot about achieving independence (and I believe Stephen was learning Norwegian once. How did it go, Stephen?)

    Norway was regarded as one of Europe’s poor guys until they struck oil in the mid 70s. They have transformed their long boney country of 4.5 million.

    We are no strangers here but we are well and truly gobsmacked at the rich standard of living in evidence everywhere.
    The quality of lifestyle is remarkable.

    Many from our shockingly deprived communities in Scotland would think they had gone to heaven if they fetched up here for a short period.

    One of the most convincing tangible examples of how to manage your independence can be clearly demonstrated here in Norway. Get a camera crew over and shoot some film for a special programme: “This is what we mean by Independence!”

    Independent Norway does it’s own thing, makes it’s own treaty arrangements. Not in the EU (but gets a good deal) and, unlike the Swedes, is a member of Nato.

  12. Major difficulties yesterday trying to log in. Thanks Newsnet for emailing me.

    Still working our way slowly up to Nordkapp, Norway, in the Highlander campervan.

    This country can teach us a lot about achieving independence (and I believe Stephen was learning Norwegian once. How did it go, Stephen?)

    Norway was regarded as one of Europe’s poor guys until they struck oil in the mid 70s. They have transformed their long boney country of 4.5 million.

    We are no strangers here but we are well and truly gobsmacked at the rich standard of living in evidence everywhere.
    The quality of lifestyle is remarkable.

    Many from our shockingly deprived communities in Scotland would think they had gone to heaven if they fetched up here for a short period.

    One of the most convincing tangible examples of how to manage your independence can be clearly demonstrated here in Norway. Get a camera crew over and shoot some film for a special programme: “This is what we mean by Independence!”

    Independent Norway does it’s own thing, makes it’s own treaty arrangements. Not in the EU (but gets a good deal) and, unlike the Swedes, is a member of Nato.

  13. Although Mr Maxwell is not in favour of independent joining the euro, he appears to take it for granted that independent Scotland will be in the EU. That is unreakistic since new members must commit to joining the eurozone.

    But in any case, independent Scotland’s membership of the European Union would be a major mistake. The UK’s membership of the EU has been and continues to be an economic disaster for Scotland.

    Through its Common Fisheries Policy (CFP), the EU long ago destroyed the Scottish demersal fisheries industry as well as the many coastal villages that were dependent on it.

    The European Union has only 27 members whereas the Council of Europe has 47 members and does not infringe on the sovereignty of its members as does the EU. Yet the EU seems to believe it is justified in ignoring international law, specifically the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and its incorporated fish stocks agreement. Under the Lisbon treaty, which the British were not permitted to vote on, the EU now controls all of Scotland’s national seas and sea fisheries. Moreover, it will soon exert control over all the minerals in these seas. So much for Scotland’s oil…

    The Scottish Democratic Alliance (SDA) has done a searching analysis of Scotland’s financial relationship with the European Union, and estimates that Scotland’s net contribution to the EU is currently running at an annual average of £532 million. See scottishdemocraticalliance.org and go to ‘International/ Scotland in Europe’.

    The EU takes this money, deducts its own huge overheads, and returns only some of the remainder to Scotland in “grants”. In 2007, for example, Scotland paid £350 million more to the European Union than we received from the European Union, based on the Scottish Government’s publication ‘Europe and Foreign Affairs: Taking forward our National Conversation’, September 2009, Annex B Table 5.

    Scotland’s net contribution to the EU is more than £100 for every man, woman and bairn in the country, calculated after all “grants” have been taken into account. The £4.7 million that the Scottish Government publication mentions is therefore only the return of a minute fraction of Scotland’s own money that it has paid into the EU.

    How many more Scottish jobs could be created with £532 million every year?
    Scotland’s own money that it has paid into the EU.

  14. Although Mr Maxwell is not in favour of independent joining the euro, he appears to take it for granted that independent Scotland will be in the EU. That is unreakistic since new members must commit to joining the eurozone.

    But in any case, independent Scotland’s membership of the European Union would be a major mistake. The UK’s membership of the EU has been and continues to be an economic disaster for Scotland.

    Through its Common Fisheries Policy (CFP), the EU long ago destroyed the Scottish demersal fisheries industry as well as the many coastal villages that were dependent on it.

    The European Union has only 27 members whereas the Council of Europe has 47 members and does not infringe on the sovereignty of its members as does the EU. Yet the EU seems to believe it is justified in ignoring international law, specifically the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and its incorporated fish stocks agreement. Under the Lisbon treaty, which the British were not permitted to vote on, the EU now controls all of Scotland’s national seas and sea fisheries. Moreover, it will soon exert control over all the minerals in these seas. So much for Scotland’s oil…

    The Scottish Democratic Alliance (SDA) has done a searching analysis of Scotland’s financial relationship with the European Union, and estimates that Scotland’s net contribution to the EU is currently running at an annual average of £532 million. See scottishdemocraticalliance.org and go to ‘International/ Scotland in Europe’.

    The EU takes this money, deducts its own huge overheads, and returns only some of the remainder to Scotland in “grants”. In 2007, for example, Scotland paid £350 million more to the European Union than we received from the European Union, based on the Scottish Government’s publication ‘Europe and Foreign Affairs: Taking forward our National Conversation’, September 2009, Annex B Table 5.

    Scotland’s net contribution to the EU is more than £100 for every man, woman and bairn in the country, calculated after all “grants” have been taken into account. The £4.7 million that the Scottish Government publication mentions is therefore only the return of a minute fraction of Scotland’s own money that it has paid into the EU.

    How many more Scottish jobs could be created with £532 million every year?
    Scotland’s own money that it has paid into the EU.

  15. Although Mr Maxwell is not in favour of independent joining the euro, he appears to take it for granted that independent Scotland will be in the EU. That is unreakistic since new members must commit to joining the eurozone.

    But in any case, independent Scotland’s membership of the European Union would be a major mistake. The UK’s membership of the EU has been and continues to be an economic disaster for Scotland.

    Through its Common Fisheries Policy (CFP), the EU long ago destroyed the Scottish demersal fisheries industry as well as the many coastal villages that were dependent on it.

    The European Union has only 27 members whereas the Council of Europe has 47 members and does not infringe on the sovereignty of its members as does the EU. Yet the EU seems to believe it is justified in ignoring international law, specifically the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and its incorporated fish stocks agreement. Under the Lisbon treaty, which the British were not permitted to vote on, the EU now controls all of Scotland’s national seas and sea fisheries. Moreover, it will soon exert control over all the minerals in these seas. So much for Scotland’s oil…

    The Scottish Democratic Alliance (SDA) has done a searching analysis of Scotland’s financial relationship with the European Union, and estimates that Scotland’s net contribution to the EU is currently running at an annual average of £532 million. See scottishdemocraticalliance.org and go to ‘International/ Scotland in Europe’.

    The EU takes this money, deducts its own huge overheads, and returns only some of the remainder to Scotland in “grants”. In 2007, for example, Scotland paid £350 million more to the European Union than we received from the European Union, based on the Scottish Government’s publication ‘Europe and Foreign Affairs: Taking forward our National Conversation’, September 2009, Annex B Table 5.

    Scotland’s net contribution to the EU is more than £100 for every man, woman and bairn in the country, calculated after all “grants” have been taken into account. The £4.7 million that the Scottish Government publication mentions is therefore only the return of a minute fraction of Scotland’s own money that it has paid into the EU.

    How many more Scottish jobs could be created with £532 million every year?
    Scotland’s own money that it has paid into the EU.

  16. Although Mr Maxwell is not in favour of independent joining the euro, he appears to take it for granted that independent Scotland will be in the EU. That is unreakistic since new members must commit to joining the eurozone.

    But in any case, independent Scotland’s membership of the European Union would be a major mistake. The UK’s membership of the EU has been and continues to be an economic disaster for Scotland.

    Through its Common Fisheries Policy (CFP), the EU long ago destroyed the Scottish demersal fisheries industry as well as the many coastal villages that were dependent on it.

    The European Union has only 27 members whereas the Council of Europe has 47 members and does not infringe on the sovereignty of its members as does the EU. Yet the EU seems to believe it is justified in ignoring international law, specifically the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and its incorporated fish stocks agreement. Under the Lisbon treaty, which the British were not permitted to vote on, the EU now controls all of Scotland’s national seas and sea fisheries. Moreover, it will soon exert control over all the minerals in these seas. So much for Scotland’s oil…

    The Scottish Democratic Alliance (SDA) has done a searching analysis of Scotland’s financial relationship with the European Union, and estimates that Scotland’s net contribution to the EU is currently running at an annual average of £532 million. See scottishdemocraticalliance.org and go to ‘International/ Scotland in Europe’.

    The EU takes this money, deducts its own huge overheads, and returns only some of the remainder to Scotland in “grants”. In 2007, for example, Scotland paid £350 million more to the European Union than we received from the European Union, based on the Scottish Government’s publication ‘Europe and Foreign Affairs: Taking forward our National Conversation’, September 2009, Annex B Table 5.

    Scotland’s net contribution to the EU is more than £100 for every man, woman and bairn in the country, calculated after all “grants” have been taken into account. The £4.7 million that the Scottish Government publication mentions is therefore only the return of a minute fraction of Scotland’s own money that it has paid into the EU.

    How many more Scottish jobs could be created with £532 million every year?
    Scotland’s own money that it has paid into the EU.

  17. Although Mr Maxwell is not in favour of independent joining the euro, he appears to take it for granted that independent Scotland will be in the EU. That is unreakistic since new members must commit to joining the eurozone.

    But in any case, independent Scotland’s membership of the European Union would be a major mistake. The UK’s membership of the EU has been and continues to be an economic disaster for Scotland.

    Through its Common Fisheries Policy (CFP), the EU long ago destroyed the Scottish demersal fisheries industry as well as the many coastal villages that were dependent on it.

    The European Union has only 27 members whereas the Council of Europe has 47 members and does not infringe on the sovereignty of its members as does the EU. Yet the EU seems to believe it is justified in ignoring international law, specifically the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and its incorporated fish stocks agreement. Under the Lisbon treaty, which the British were not permitted to vote on, the EU now controls all of Scotland’s national seas and sea fisheries. Moreover, it will soon exert control over all the minerals in these seas. So much for Scotland’s oil…

    The Scottish Democratic Alliance (SDA) has done a searching analysis of Scotland’s financial relationship with the European Union, and estimates that Scotland’s net contribution to the EU is currently running at an annual average of £532 million. See scottishdemocraticalliance.org and go to ‘International/ Scotland in Europe’.

    The EU takes this money, deducts its own huge overheads, and returns only some of the remainder to Scotland in “grants”. In 2007, for example, Scotland paid £350 million more to the European Union than we received from the European Union, based on the Scottish Government’s publication ‘Europe and Foreign Affairs: Taking forward our National Conversation’, September 2009, Annex B Table 5.

    Scotland’s net contribution to the EU is more than £100 for every man, woman and bairn in the country, calculated after all “grants” have been taken into account. The £4.7 million that the Scottish Government publication mentions is therefore only the return of a minute fraction of Scotland’s own money that it has paid into the EU.

    How many more Scottish jobs could be created with £532 million every year?
    Scotland’s own money that it has paid into the EU.

  18. Although Mr Maxwell is not in favour of independent joining the euro, he appears to take it for granted that independent Scotland will be in the EU. That is unreakistic since new members must commit to joining the eurozone.

    But in any case, independent Scotland’s membership of the European Union would be a major mistake. The UK’s membership of the EU has been and continues to be an economic disaster for Scotland.

    Through its Common Fisheries Policy (CFP), the EU long ago destroyed the Scottish demersal fisheries industry as well as the many coastal villages that were dependent on it.

    The European Union has only 27 members whereas the Council of Europe has 47 members and does not infringe on the sovereignty of its members as does the EU. Yet the EU seems to believe it is justified in ignoring international law, specifically the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and its incorporated fish stocks agreement. Under the Lisbon treaty, which the British were not permitted to vote on, the EU now controls all of Scotland’s national seas and sea fisheries. Moreover, it will soon exert control over all the minerals in these seas. So much for Scotland’s oil…

    The Scottish Democratic Alliance (SDA) has done a searching analysis of Scotland’s financial relationship with the European Union, and estimates that Scotland’s net contribution to the EU is currently running at an annual average of £532 million. See scottishdemocraticalliance.org and go to ‘International/ Scotland in Europe’.

    The EU takes this money, deducts its own huge overheads, and returns only some of the remainder to Scotland in “grants”. In 2007, for example, Scotland paid £350 million more to the European Union than we received from the European Union, based on the Scottish Government’s publication ‘Europe and Foreign Affairs: Taking forward our National Conversation’, September 2009, Annex B Table 5.

    Scotland’s net contribution to the EU is more than £100 for every man, woman and bairn in the country, calculated after all “grants” have been taken into account. The £4.7 million that the Scottish Government publication mentions is therefore only the return of a minute fraction of Scotland’s own money that it has paid into the EU.

    How many more Scottish jobs could be created with £532 million every year?
    Scotland’s own money that it has paid into the EU.

  19. [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radioscotland/2011/07/newsweek-scotland.shtml]Newsweek Scotland: Economics of Independence[/url]

  20. [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radioscotland/2011/07/newsweek-scotland.shtml]Newsweek Scotland: Economics of Independence[/url]

  21. [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radioscotland/2011/07/newsweek-scotland.shtml]Newsweek Scotland: Economics of Independence[/url]

  22. [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radioscotland/2011/07/newsweek-scotland.shtml]Newsweek Scotland: Economics of Independence[/url]

  23. [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radioscotland/2011/07/newsweek-scotland.shtml]Newsweek Scotland: Economics of Independence[/url]

  24. [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radioscotland/2011/07/newsweek-scotland.shtml]Newsweek Scotland: Economics of Independence[/url]

  25. All this boils down to: The party will decide “when” and “what for” the Sovereign Scottish people will vote. Sounds to me that what we now have is “a replica of Westminster”. The SNP have a majority in the Scottish Parliament and will exercise their sovereignty. There will be no discussion even among the party faithful.

    Nothing is going to change, the Westminster system has been high jacked by the UK political parties and parliament cannot be held to account by the people other than at the time of a general election. In parliament, the party leader with the most seats is appointed by convention, not elected by Parliament or the electorate, and as Prime Minister, controls and appoints the executive, and thus essentially a party controls parliament. The situation is further exacerbated and democracy diminished, by the “Whip system” on party MPs to ensure the outcome of a vote suits the party line. The fusion of powers currently controlled by the party leader in effect results in an elective dictatorship.

  26. All this boils down to: The party will decide “when” and “what for” the Sovereign Scottish people will vote. Sounds to me that what we now have is “a replica of Westminster”. The SNP have a majority in the Scottish Parliament and will exercise their sovereignty. There will be no discussion even among the party faithful.

    Nothing is going to change, the Westminster system has been high jacked by the UK political parties and parliament cannot be held to account by the people other than at the time of a general election. In parliament, the party leader with the most seats is appointed by convention, not elected by Parliament or the electorate, and as Prime Minister, controls and appoints the executive, and thus essentially a party controls parliament. The situation is further exacerbated and democracy diminished, by the “Whip system” on party MPs to ensure the outcome of a vote suits the party line. The fusion of powers currently controlled by the party leader in effect results in an elective dictatorship.

  27. All this boils down to: The party will decide “when” and “what for” the Sovereign Scottish people will vote. Sounds to me that what we now have is “a replica of Westminster”. The SNP have a majority in the Scottish Parliament and will exercise their sovereignty. There will be no discussion even among the party faithful.

    Nothing is going to change, the Westminster system has been high jacked by the UK political parties and parliament cannot be held to account by the people other than at the time of a general election. In parliament, the party leader with the most seats is appointed by convention, not elected by Parliament or the electorate, and as Prime Minister, controls and appoints the executive, and thus essentially a party controls parliament. The situation is further exacerbated and democracy diminished, by the “Whip system” on party MPs to ensure the outcome of a vote suits the party line. The fusion of powers currently controlled by the party leader in effect results in an elective dictatorship.

  28. All this boils down to: The party will decide “when” and “what for” the Sovereign Scottish people will vote. Sounds to me that what we now have is “a replica of Westminster”. The SNP have a majority in the Scottish Parliament and will exercise their sovereignty. There will be no discussion even among the party faithful.

    Nothing is going to change, the Westminster system has been high jacked by the UK political parties and parliament cannot be held to account by the people other than at the time of a general election. In parliament, the party leader with the most seats is appointed by convention, not elected by Parliament or the electorate, and as Prime Minister, controls and appoints the executive, and thus essentially a party controls parliament. The situation is further exacerbated and democracy diminished, by the “Whip system” on party MPs to ensure the outcome of a vote suits the party line. The fusion of powers currently controlled by the party leader in effect results in an elective dictatorship.

  29. All this boils down to: The party will decide “when” and “what for” the Sovereign Scottish people will vote. Sounds to me that what we now have is “a replica of Westminster”. The SNP have a majority in the Scottish Parliament and will exercise their sovereignty. There will be no discussion even among the party faithful.

    Nothing is going to change, the Westminster system has been high jacked by the UK political parties and parliament cannot be held to account by the people other than at the time of a general election. In parliament, the party leader with the most seats is appointed by convention, not elected by Parliament or the electorate, and as Prime Minister, controls and appoints the executive, and thus essentially a party controls parliament. The situation is further exacerbated and democracy diminished, by the “Whip system” on party MPs to ensure the outcome of a vote suits the party line. The fusion of powers currently controlled by the party leader in effect results in an elective dictatorship.

  30. All this boils down to: The party will decide “when” and “what for” the Sovereign Scottish people will vote. Sounds to me that what we now have is “a replica of Westminster”. The SNP have a majority in the Scottish Parliament and will exercise their sovereignty. There will be no discussion even among the party faithful.

    Nothing is going to change, the Westminster system has been high jacked by the UK political parties and parliament cannot be held to account by the people other than at the time of a general election. In parliament, the party leader with the most seats is appointed by convention, not elected by Parliament or the electorate, and as Prime Minister, controls and appoints the executive, and thus essentially a party controls parliament. The situation is further exacerbated and democracy diminished, by the “Whip system” on party MPs to ensure the outcome of a vote suits the party line. The fusion of powers currently controlled by the party leader in effect results in an elective dictatorship.

  31. All this boils down to: The party will decide “when” and “what for” the Sovereign Scottish people will vote. Sounds to me that what we now have is “a replica of Westminster”. The SNP have a majority in the Scottish Parliament and will exercise their sovereignty. There will be no discussion even among the party faithful.

    Nothing is going to change, the Westminster system has been high jacked by the UK political parties and parliament cannot be held to account by the people other than at the time of a general election. In parliament, the party leader with the most seats is appointed by convention, not elected by Parliament or the electorate, and as Prime Minister, controls and appoints the executive, and thus essentially a party controls parliament. The situation is further exacerbated and democracy diminished, by the “Whip system” on party MPs to ensure the outcome of a vote suits the party line. The fusion of powers currently controlled by the party leader in effect results in an elective dictatorship.

  32. Interesting article here about the former Conservative leader John Major and his latest thoughts on more powers for Scotland.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14093640[/url]

    Meanwhile back on planet Zog.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-14092998[/url]

    Does this depraived individual [b]REALLY[/b] think the [b]TRUE[/b] people of Scotland will actually listen to him, more importantly will they [b]BELIEVE[/b] him? 😀

  33. Interesting article here about the former Conservative leader John Major and his latest thoughts on more powers for Scotland.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14093640[/url]

    Meanwhile back on planet Zog.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-14092998[/url]

    Does this depraived individual [b]REALLY[/b] think the [b]TRUE[/b] people of Scotland will actually listen to him, more importantly will they [b]BELIEVE[/b] him? 😀

  34. Interesting article here about the former Conservative leader John Major and his latest thoughts on more powers for Scotland.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14093640[/url]

    Meanwhile back on planet Zog.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-14092998[/url]

    Does this depraived individual [b]REALLY[/b] think the [b]TRUE[/b] people of Scotland will actually listen to him, more importantly will they [b]BELIEVE[/b] him? 😀

  35. Interesting article here about the former Conservative leader John Major and his latest thoughts on more powers for Scotland.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14093640[/url]

    Meanwhile back on planet Zog.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-14092998[/url]

    Does this depraived individual [b]REALLY[/b] think the [b]TRUE[/b] people of Scotland will actually listen to him, more importantly will they [b]BELIEVE[/b] him? 😀

  36. Interesting article here about the former Conservative leader John Major and his latest thoughts on more powers for Scotland.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14093640[/url]

    Meanwhile back on planet Zog.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-14092998[/url]

    Does this depraived individual [b]REALLY[/b] think the [b]TRUE[/b] people of Scotland will actually listen to him, more importantly will they [b]BELIEVE[/b] him? 😀

  37. Interesting article here about the former Conservative leader John Major and his latest thoughts on more powers for Scotland.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14093640[/url]

    Meanwhile back on planet Zog.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-14092998[/url]

    Does this depraived individual [b]REALLY[/b] think the [b]TRUE[/b] people of Scotland will actually listen to him, more importantly will they [b]BELIEVE[/b] him? 😀

  38. Oh dear.

    Bank of England getting its little wristies slapped here methinks.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14085513[/url]

    Now who’s a naughty little boy then. 😀

  39. Oh dear.

    Bank of England getting its little wristies slapped here methinks.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14085513[/url]

    Now who’s a naughty little boy then. 😀

  40. Oh dear.

    Bank of England getting its little wristies slapped here methinks.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14085513[/url]

    Now who’s a naughty little boy then. 😀

  41. Oh dear.

    Bank of England getting its little wristies slapped here methinks.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14085513[/url]

    Now who’s a naughty little boy then. 😀

  42. Oh dear.

    Bank of England getting its little wristies slapped here methinks.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14085513[/url]

    Now who’s a naughty little boy then. 😀

    • I saw Alex Salmond sitting beside John Major at Wimbledon final last week. Maybe John had had his ear bent!!!

      Edwina Currie was nowhere in sight, thankfully.

      • [quote name=”km”]Edwina Currie was nowhere in sight, thankfully.[/quote]

        She was away fetching the scotch eggs.

      • [quote name=”km”]Edwina Currie was nowhere in sight, thankfully.[/quote]

        She was away fetching the scotch eggs.

      • [quote name=”km”]Edwina Currie was nowhere in sight, thankfully.[/quote]

        She was away fetching the scotch eggs.

      • [quote name=”km”]Edwina Currie was nowhere in sight, thankfully.[/quote]

        She was away fetching the scotch eggs.

      • [quote name=”km”]Edwina Currie was nowhere in sight, thankfully.[/quote]

        She was away fetching the scotch eggs.

    • I saw Alex Salmond sitting beside John Major at Wimbledon final last week. Maybe John had had his ear bent!!!

      Edwina Currie was nowhere in sight, thankfully.

    • I saw Alex Salmond sitting beside John Major at Wimbledon final last week. Maybe John had had his ear bent!!!

      Edwina Currie was nowhere in sight, thankfully.

    • I saw Alex Salmond sitting beside John Major at Wimbledon final last week. Maybe John had had his ear bent!!!

      Edwina Currie was nowhere in sight, thankfully.

    • I saw Alex Salmond sitting beside John Major at Wimbledon final last week. Maybe John had had his ear bent!!!

      Edwina Currie was nowhere in sight, thankfully.

  43. Somebody on another thread posted a link to this:

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0079g3m[/url]

    Derek Bateman on Radio Scotland, interviewing two independent experts who confirm the Prof Hughes Hallet view that Scotland would NOT have been responsible for the entire bailout of RBS.

    IMO, Michael Moore needs to be taken to task over his recent comments. He is meant to be representing Scotland, but he continues to spread misinformation.

    • The problem is that interviews like the ones Derek Bateman does are only broadcast at times when the majority of listeners are unlikely to hear them.
      So, thanks for the link km, I always intend to get up and listen but very rarely do.

    • The problem is that interviews like the ones Derek Bateman does are only broadcast at times when the majority of listeners are unlikely to hear them.
      So, thanks for the link km, I always intend to get up and listen but very rarely do.

    • The problem is that interviews like the ones Derek Bateman does are only broadcast at times when the majority of listeners are unlikely to hear them.
      So, thanks for the link km, I always intend to get up and listen but very rarely do.

    • The problem is that interviews like the ones Derek Bateman does are only broadcast at times when the majority of listeners are unlikely to hear them.
      So, thanks for the link km, I always intend to get up and listen but very rarely do.

    • The problem is that interviews like the ones Derek Bateman does are only broadcast at times when the majority of listeners are unlikely to hear them.
      So, thanks for the link km, I always intend to get up and listen but very rarely do.

    • [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b012fr9t/Newsweek_Scotland_09_07_2011/]9/07/11[/url]

    • [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b012fr9t/Newsweek_Scotland_09_07_2011/]9/07/11[/url]

    • [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b012fr9t/Newsweek_Scotland_09_07_2011/]9/07/11[/url]

    • [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b012fr9t/Newsweek_Scotland_09_07_2011/]9/07/11[/url]

    • [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b012fr9t/Newsweek_Scotland_09_07_2011/]9/07/11[/url]

  44. Somebody on another thread posted a link to this:

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0079g3m[/url]

    Derek Bateman on Radio Scotland, interviewing two independent experts who confirm the Prof Hughes Hallet view that Scotland would NOT have been responsible for the entire bailout of RBS.

    IMO, Michael Moore needs to be taken to task over his recent comments. He is meant to be representing Scotland, but he continues to spread misinformation.

  45. Somebody on another thread posted a link to this:

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0079g3m[/url]

    Derek Bateman on Radio Scotland, interviewing two independent experts who confirm the Prof Hughes Hallet view that Scotland would NOT have been responsible for the entire bailout of RBS.

    IMO, Michael Moore needs to be taken to task over his recent comments. He is meant to be representing Scotland, but he continues to spread misinformation.

  46. Somebody on another thread posted a link to this:

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0079g3m[/url]

    Derek Bateman on Radio Scotland, interviewing two independent experts who confirm the Prof Hughes Hallet view that Scotland would NOT have been responsible for the entire bailout of RBS.

    IMO, Michael Moore needs to be taken to task over his recent comments. He is meant to be representing Scotland, but he continues to spread misinformation.

  47. Somebody on another thread posted a link to this:

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0079g3m[/url]

    Derek Bateman on Radio Scotland, interviewing two independent experts who confirm the Prof Hughes Hallet view that Scotland would NOT have been responsible for the entire bailout of RBS.

    IMO, Michael Moore needs to be taken to task over his recent comments. He is meant to be representing Scotland, but he continues to spread misinformation.

  48. “The party will decide “when” and “what for” the Sovereign Scottish people will vote.”

    A party is going to let the sovereign people vote on the future of their country. A vote that every other party has refused to give the sovereign people of Scotland since the coup d’etat of 1707.

  49. “The party will decide “when” and “what for” the Sovereign Scottish people will vote.”

    A party is going to let the sovereign people vote on the future of their country. A vote that every other party has refused to give the sovereign people of Scotland since the coup d’etat of 1707.

  50. “The party will decide “when” and “what for” the Sovereign Scottish people will vote.”

    A party is going to let the sovereign people vote on the future of their country. A vote that every other party has refused to give the sovereign people of Scotland since the coup d’etat of 1707.

  51. “The party will decide “when” and “what for” the Sovereign Scottish people will vote.”

    A party is going to let the sovereign people vote on the future of their country. A vote that every other party has refused to give the sovereign people of Scotland since the coup d’etat of 1707.

  52. “The party will decide “when” and “what for” the Sovereign Scottish people will vote.”

    A party is going to let the sovereign people vote on the future of their country. A vote that every other party has refused to give the sovereign people of Scotland since the coup d’etat of 1707.

  53. “Sounds to me that what we now have is “a replica of Westminster”.

    We would need sovereignty and power to reside with the sovereign people of Scotland to be on an even footing with Westminster.

  54. “Sounds to me that what we now have is “a replica of Westminster”.

    We would need sovereignty and power to reside with the sovereign people of Scotland to be on an even footing with Westminster.

  55. “Sounds to me that what we now have is “a replica of Westminster”.

    We would need sovereignty and power to reside with the sovereign people of Scotland to be on an even footing with Westminster.

  56. “Sounds to me that what we now have is “a replica of Westminster”.

    We would need sovereignty and power to reside with the sovereign people of Scotland to be on an even footing with Westminster.

  57. “Sounds to me that what we now have is “a replica of Westminster”.

    We would need sovereignty and power to reside with the sovereign people of Scotland to be on an even footing with Westminster.

  58. The SNP have scared the excrement out of the unionist parties. The back biters, nay sayers, kill-joys and I dinnea like alex salmond brigade, are using the usual strategy of divide and conquer. The divide they are aiming for is to sever the head from the body of the SNP. Salmond is an heavy weight politician. Not so long ago they had a go at him about having 2 jobs, booting the vocals out of them in Westminster which they really didnt enjoy, and moulding his party in Edinburgh. With cleverly worded sentences they said Alex is either for Scotland or the SNP claim for indipendence is rubbished if he continues to serve in westminster. Abracadabre, Alex has one job, however the rotund magician has on one hand become the First Minister running the country for 4 years, repeating the feat at the recent elections, with a working majority.
    In other websites I visit notably newspaper sites, we all discussed the dirty tricks brigade working away in the gloom, spinning their webs of mis-information and slights on peoples character. Alex is a big boy, he knows this strategy, he’s been heckled by people before. He has an answer for them, they rarely reply. Westminster needs to uproot him acting as “CEO of Scotland Inc.” They want to marginalise him, to ridicule him, his shape, his legitimacy, his record etc etc…
    If westminster can behead the SNP, they will parachute in Heavy weight MPs to Edinburgh to fight their opposition to the independence vote.
    England is brewing,
    If you want free tuition, go live in Scotland.
    If ur ill and dont want charged at the chemist for your prescription, go live in Scotland.
    If your old and need care and you dont want to lose your bought house to pay for it, go live in Scotland.
    If your a motorist and you dont want to pay tolls your taxes should pay on bridges ie Tay, Forth & Skye, go live in Scotland.

    All in all Scotland is doing well, regardless of what westminster is gonna try and convince us to the contrary.
    Independent we could do OOOOOh extremely well.

    The students, the young, the old and unwell are all determined not to vote for somebody that would put a price up.

    If Alex and his collegues word things eloquently, describe & demonstrate when the time is right how they intend it done. Westminster will be a step behind, unhappy in the failure to have the SNP show their hand too soon. Giving the advantage away, allowing westminster to sow the seeds of doubt.

    I think we need Alex Salmond to do his job, anybody squealing now should shut up and squeal when were independent. People are forgetting that the SNP will be a transition government running the country until a new government can be voted on in an election. Probably in a 2nd year of Independence. By which time international/banking/political and a,n,other agreements will have been arranged.

    Roll on 2015 I say, lets be havin you. Ive been waiting for this all my life. I started of as a teenager at school debating this in the 70s. I saw how actavists can get Andrew Welsh elected in Angus. I saw the SNP yellow fill angus on TV, this year I saw Scotland go SNP yellow.

    Westminster rigged the 70s vote, they distorted democracy, refusing independence even though they lost.
    This is Scotlands time and the people wont let her down. Not after the shafting that Scotland has had in the last 300+ years.

    Alba gu brath…
    Soar Alba.

    • Canny Mann 2011-07-09 23:56
      “If Alex and his collegues word things eloquently, describe & demonstrate when the time is right how they intend it done. Westminster will be a step behind, unhappy in the failure to have the SNP show their hand too soon. Giving the advantage away, allowing westminster to sow the seeds of doubt.”

      But when are the Scottish people going to be allowed to discus the plan? When the time is right for the SNP and wrong for the unionist parties?

      Do they think we are too stupid to understand what they are planning. Or are the simply waiting to counter the arguments for reform of the union which is undoubtedly on the way. As soon as the Lib/Dems in Scotland grow a pair and withdraw from the coalition.

    • Canny Mann 2011-07-09 23:56
      “If Alex and his collegues word things eloquently, describe & demonstrate when the time is right how they intend it done. Westminster will be a step behind, unhappy in the failure to have the SNP show their hand too soon. Giving the advantage away, allowing westminster to sow the seeds of doubt.”

      But when are the Scottish people going to be allowed to discus the plan? When the time is right for the SNP and wrong for the unionist parties?

      Do they think we are too stupid to understand what they are planning. Or are the simply waiting to counter the arguments for reform of the union which is undoubtedly on the way. As soon as the Lib/Dems in Scotland grow a pair and withdraw from the coalition.

    • Canny Mann 2011-07-09 23:56
      “If Alex and his collegues word things eloquently, describe & demonstrate when the time is right how they intend it done. Westminster will be a step behind, unhappy in the failure to have the SNP show their hand too soon. Giving the advantage away, allowing westminster to sow the seeds of doubt.”

      But when are the Scottish people going to be allowed to discus the plan? When the time is right for the SNP and wrong for the unionist parties?

      Do they think we are too stupid to understand what they are planning. Or are the simply waiting to counter the arguments for reform of the union which is undoubtedly on the way. As soon as the Lib/Dems in Scotland grow a pair and withdraw from the coalition.

    • Canny Mann 2011-07-09 23:56
      “If Alex and his collegues word things eloquently, describe & demonstrate when the time is right how they intend it done. Westminster will be a step behind, unhappy in the failure to have the SNP show their hand too soon. Giving the advantage away, allowing westminster to sow the seeds of doubt.”

      But when are the Scottish people going to be allowed to discus the plan? When the time is right for the SNP and wrong for the unionist parties?

      Do they think we are too stupid to understand what they are planning. Or are the simply waiting to counter the arguments for reform of the union which is undoubtedly on the way. As soon as the Lib/Dems in Scotland grow a pair and withdraw from the coalition.

    • Canny Mann 2011-07-09 23:56
      “If Alex and his collegues word things eloquently, describe & demonstrate when the time is right how they intend it done. Westminster will be a step behind, unhappy in the failure to have the SNP show their hand too soon. Giving the advantage away, allowing westminster to sow the seeds of doubt.”

      But when are the Scottish people going to be allowed to discus the plan? When the time is right for the SNP and wrong for the unionist parties?

      Do they think we are too stupid to understand what they are planning. Or are the simply waiting to counter the arguments for reform of the union which is undoubtedly on the way. As soon as the Lib/Dems in Scotland grow a pair and withdraw from the coalition.

  59. The SNP have scared the excrement out of the unionist parties. The back biters, nay sayers, kill-joys and I dinnea like alex salmond brigade, are using the usual strategy of divide and conquer. The divide they are aiming for is to sever the head from the body of the SNP. Salmond is an heavy weight politician. Not so long ago they had a go at him about having 2 jobs, booting the vocals out of them in Westminster which they really didnt enjoy, and moulding his party in Edinburgh. With cleverly worded sentences they said Alex is either for Scotland or the SNP claim for indipendence is rubbished if he continues to serve in westminster. Abracadabre, Alex has one job, however the rotund magician has on one hand become the First Minister running the country for 4 years, repeating the feat at the recent elections, with a working majority.
    In other websites I visit notably newspaper sites, we all discussed the dirty tricks brigade working away in the gloom, spinning their webs of mis-information and slights on peoples character. Alex is a big boy, he knows this strategy, he’s been heckled by people before. He has an answer for them, they rarely reply. Westminster needs to uproot him acting as “CEO of Scotland Inc.” They want to marginalise him, to ridicule him, his shape, his legitimacy, his record etc etc…
    If westminster can behead the SNP, they will parachute in Heavy weight MPs to Edinburgh to fight their opposition to the independence vote.
    England is brewing,
    If you want free tuition, go live in Scotland.
    If ur ill and dont want charged at the chemist for your prescription, go live in Scotland.
    If your old and need care and you dont want to lose your bought house to pay for it, go live in Scotland.
    If your a motorist and you dont want to pay tolls your taxes should pay on bridges ie Tay, Forth & Skye, go live in Scotland.

    All in all Scotland is doing well, regardless of what westminster is gonna try and convince us to the contrary.
    Independent we could do OOOOOh extremely well.

    The students, the young, the old and unwell are all determined not to vote for somebody that would put a price up.

    If Alex and his collegues word things eloquently, describe & demonstrate when the time is right how they intend it done. Westminster will be a step behind, unhappy in the failure to have the SNP show their hand too soon. Giving the advantage away, allowing westminster to sow the seeds of doubt.

    I think we need Alex Salmond to do his job, anybody squealing now should shut up and squeal when were independent. People are forgetting that the SNP will be a transition government running the country until a new government can be voted on in an election. Probably in a 2nd year of Independence. By which time international/banking/political and a,n,other agreements will have been arranged.

    Roll on 2015 I say, lets be havin you. Ive been waiting for this all my life. I started of as a teenager at school debating this in the 70s. I saw how actavists can get Andrew Welsh elected in Angus. I saw the SNP yellow fill angus on TV, this year I saw Scotland go SNP yellow.

    Westminster rigged the 70s vote, they distorted democracy, refusing independence even though they lost.
    This is Scotlands time and the people wont let her down. Not after the shafting that Scotland has had in the last 300+ years.

    Alba gu brath…
    Soar Alba.

  60. The SNP have scared the excrement out of the unionist parties. The back biters, nay sayers, kill-joys and I dinnea like alex salmond brigade, are using the usual strategy of divide and conquer. The divide they are aiming for is to sever the head from the body of the SNP. Salmond is an heavy weight politician. Not so long ago they had a go at him about having 2 jobs, booting the vocals out of them in Westminster which they really didnt enjoy, and moulding his party in Edinburgh. With cleverly worded sentences they said Alex is either for Scotland or the SNP claim for indipendence is rubbished if he continues to serve in westminster. Abracadabre, Alex has one job, however the rotund magician has on one hand become the First Minister running the country for 4 years, repeating the feat at the recent elections, with a working majority.
    In other websites I visit notably newspaper sites, we all discussed the dirty tricks brigade working away in the gloom, spinning their webs of mis-information and slights on peoples character. Alex is a big boy, he knows this strategy, he’s been heckled by people before. He has an answer for them, they rarely reply. Westminster needs to uproot him acting as “CEO of Scotland Inc.” They want to marginalise him, to ridicule him, his shape, his legitimacy, his record etc etc…
    If westminster can behead the SNP, they will parachute in Heavy weight MPs to Edinburgh to fight their opposition to the independence vote.
    England is brewing,
    If you want free tuition, go live in Scotland.
    If ur ill and dont want charged at the chemist for your prescription, go live in Scotland.
    If your old and need care and you dont want to lose your bought house to pay for it, go live in Scotland.
    If your a motorist and you dont want to pay tolls your taxes should pay on bridges ie Tay, Forth & Skye, go live in Scotland.

    All in all Scotland is doing well, regardless of what westminster is gonna try and convince us to the contrary.
    Independent we could do OOOOOh extremely well.

    The students, the young, the old and unwell are all determined not to vote for somebody that would put a price up.

    If Alex and his collegues word things eloquently, describe & demonstrate when the time is right how they intend it done. Westminster will be a step behind, unhappy in the failure to have the SNP show their hand too soon. Giving the advantage away, allowing westminster to sow the seeds of doubt.

    I think we need Alex Salmond to do his job, anybody squealing now should shut up and squeal when were independent. People are forgetting that the SNP will be a transition government running the country until a new government can be voted on in an election. Probably in a 2nd year of Independence. By which time international/banking/political and a,n,other agreements will have been arranged.

    Roll on 2015 I say, lets be havin you. Ive been waiting for this all my life. I started of as a teenager at school debating this in the 70s. I saw how actavists can get Andrew Welsh elected in Angus. I saw the SNP yellow fill angus on TV, this year I saw Scotland go SNP yellow.

    Westminster rigged the 70s vote, they distorted democracy, refusing independence even though they lost.
    This is Scotlands time and the people wont let her down. Not after the shafting that Scotland has had in the last 300+ years.

    Alba gu brath…
    Soar Alba.

  61. The SNP have scared the excrement out of the unionist parties. The back biters, nay sayers, kill-joys and I dinnea like alex salmond brigade, are using the usual strategy of divide and conquer. The divide they are aiming for is to sever the head from the body of the SNP. Salmond is an heavy weight politician. Not so long ago they had a go at him about having 2 jobs, booting the vocals out of them in Westminster which they really didnt enjoy, and moulding his party in Edinburgh. With cleverly worded sentences they said Alex is either for Scotland or the SNP claim for indipendence is rubbished if he continues to serve in westminster. Abracadabre, Alex has one job, however the rotund magician has on one hand become the First Minister running the country for 4 years, repeating the feat at the recent elections, with a working majority.
    In other websites I visit notably newspaper sites, we all discussed the dirty tricks brigade working away in the gloom, spinning their webs of mis-information and slights on peoples character. Alex is a big boy, he knows this strategy, he’s been heckled by people before. He has an answer for them, they rarely reply. Westminster needs to uproot him acting as “CEO of Scotland Inc.” They want to marginalise him, to ridicule him, his shape, his legitimacy, his record etc etc…
    If westminster can behead the SNP, they will parachute in Heavy weight MPs to Edinburgh to fight their opposition to the independence vote.
    England is brewing,
    If you want free tuition, go live in Scotland.
    If ur ill and dont want charged at the chemist for your prescription, go live in Scotland.
    If your old and need care and you dont want to lose your bought house to pay for it, go live in Scotland.
    If your a motorist and you dont want to pay tolls your taxes should pay on bridges ie Tay, Forth & Skye, go live in Scotland.

    All in all Scotland is doing well, regardless of what westminster is gonna try and convince us to the contrary.
    Independent we could do OOOOOh extremely well.

    The students, the young, the old and unwell are all determined not to vote for somebody that would put a price up.

    If Alex and his collegues word things eloquently, describe & demonstrate when the time is right how they intend it done. Westminster will be a step behind, unhappy in the failure to have the SNP show their hand too soon. Giving the advantage away, allowing westminster to sow the seeds of doubt.

    I think we need Alex Salmond to do his job, anybody squealing now should shut up and squeal when were independent. People are forgetting that the SNP will be a transition government running the country until a new government can be voted on in an election. Probably in a 2nd year of Independence. By which time international/banking/political and a,n,other agreements will have been arranged.

    Roll on 2015 I say, lets be havin you. Ive been waiting for this all my life. I started of as a teenager at school debating this in the 70s. I saw how actavists can get Andrew Welsh elected in Angus. I saw the SNP yellow fill angus on TV, this year I saw Scotland go SNP yellow.

    Westminster rigged the 70s vote, they distorted democracy, refusing independence even though they lost.
    This is Scotlands time and the people wont let her down. Not after the shafting that Scotland has had in the last 300+ years.

    Alba gu brath…
    Soar Alba.

  62. The SNP have scared the excrement out of the unionist parties. The back biters, nay sayers, kill-joys and I dinnea like alex salmond brigade, are using the usual strategy of divide and conquer. The divide they are aiming for is to sever the head from the body of the SNP. Salmond is an heavy weight politician. Not so long ago they had a go at him about having 2 jobs, booting the vocals out of them in Westminster which they really didnt enjoy, and moulding his party in Edinburgh. With cleverly worded sentences they said Alex is either for Scotland or the SNP claim for indipendence is rubbished if he continues to serve in westminster. Abracadabre, Alex has one job, however the rotund magician has on one hand become the First Minister running the country for 4 years, repeating the feat at the recent elections, with a working majority.
    In other websites I visit notably newspaper sites, we all discussed the dirty tricks brigade working away in the gloom, spinning their webs of mis-information and slights on peoples character. Alex is a big boy, he knows this strategy, he’s been heckled by people before. He has an answer for them, they rarely reply. Westminster needs to uproot him acting as “CEO of Scotland Inc.” They want to marginalise him, to ridicule him, his shape, his legitimacy, his record etc etc…
    If westminster can behead the SNP, they will parachute in Heavy weight MPs to Edinburgh to fight their opposition to the independence vote.
    England is brewing,
    If you want free tuition, go live in Scotland.
    If ur ill and dont want charged at the chemist for your prescription, go live in Scotland.
    If your old and need care and you dont want to lose your bought house to pay for it, go live in Scotland.
    If your a motorist and you dont want to pay tolls your taxes should pay on bridges ie Tay, Forth & Skye, go live in Scotland.

    All in all Scotland is doing well, regardless of what westminster is gonna try and convince us to the contrary.
    Independent we could do OOOOOh extremely well.

    The students, the young, the old and unwell are all determined not to vote for somebody that would put a price up.

    If Alex and his collegues word things eloquently, describe & demonstrate when the time is right how they intend it done. Westminster will be a step behind, unhappy in the failure to have the SNP show their hand too soon. Giving the advantage away, allowing westminster to sow the seeds of doubt.

    I think we need Alex Salmond to do his job, anybody squealing now should shut up and squeal when were independent. People are forgetting that the SNP will be a transition government running the country until a new government can be voted on in an election. Probably in a 2nd year of Independence. By which time international/banking/political and a,n,other agreements will have been arranged.

    Roll on 2015 I say, lets be havin you. Ive been waiting for this all my life. I started of as a teenager at school debating this in the 70s. I saw how actavists can get Andrew Welsh elected in Angus. I saw the SNP yellow fill angus on TV, this year I saw Scotland go SNP yellow.

    Westminster rigged the 70s vote, they distorted democracy, refusing independence even though they lost.
    This is Scotlands time and the people wont let her down. Not after the shafting that Scotland has had in the last 300+ years.

    Alba gu brath…
    Soar Alba.

  63. IIn addition to the points that Stephen makes I would add two
    1.The Party had a clear policy that it would have a referendum on membership of the EU. Now, having heard AS deny that this continues on BBC Scotland, I am told that this has been overtaken by our clear policies on membership of the EU, as if SNP policies, even if Heaven-sent,are able to decide the sovereign will of the Scottish people. And this will be the answer to any such question during a referendum campaign where we are trumpeting the absolute right of the Scots to demand power transfer from Westminster.
    And 2.Similarly on the Euro. For we, as a Party, are committed to a referendum on the Euro, but if we become a member of the EU, which we claim will be automatic, the the question will arise as to whether the Commission rules that as a “new” member we must automatically join the eurozone under the right conditions. What then if the Scots decide, as we would have them do , that they do not want their economic freedoms to be curtailed by ECB diktat and Bank control, arising from the overall competence of the EU on Trade matters.

  64. IIn addition to the points that Stephen makes I would add two
    1.The Party had a clear policy that it would have a referendum on membership of the EU. Now, having heard AS deny that this continues on BBC Scotland, I am told that this has been overtaken by our clear policies on membership of the EU, as if SNP policies, even if Heaven-sent,are able to decide the sovereign will of the Scottish people. And this will be the answer to any such question during a referendum campaign where we are trumpeting the absolute right of the Scots to demand power transfer from Westminster.
    And 2.Similarly on the Euro. For we, as a Party, are committed to a referendum on the Euro, but if we become a member of the EU, which we claim will be automatic, the the question will arise as to whether the Commission rules that as a “new” member we must automatically join the eurozone under the right conditions. What then if the Scots decide, as we would have them do , that they do not want their economic freedoms to be curtailed by ECB diktat and Bank control, arising from the overall competence of the EU on Trade matters.

  65. IIn addition to the points that Stephen makes I would add two
    1.The Party had a clear policy that it would have a referendum on membership of the EU. Now, having heard AS deny that this continues on BBC Scotland, I am told that this has been overtaken by our clear policies on membership of the EU, as if SNP policies, even if Heaven-sent,are able to decide the sovereign will of the Scottish people. And this will be the answer to any such question during a referendum campaign where we are trumpeting the absolute right of the Scots to demand power transfer from Westminster.
    And 2.Similarly on the Euro. For we, as a Party, are committed to a referendum on the Euro, but if we become a member of the EU, which we claim will be automatic, the the question will arise as to whether the Commission rules that as a “new” member we must automatically join the eurozone under the right conditions. What then if the Scots decide, as we would have them do , that they do not want their economic freedoms to be curtailed by ECB diktat and Bank control, arising from the overall competence of the EU on Trade matters.

  66. IIn addition to the points that Stephen makes I would add two
    1.The Party had a clear policy that it would have a referendum on membership of the EU. Now, having heard AS deny that this continues on BBC Scotland, I am told that this has been overtaken by our clear policies on membership of the EU, as if SNP policies, even if Heaven-sent,are able to decide the sovereign will of the Scottish people. And this will be the answer to any such question during a referendum campaign where we are trumpeting the absolute right of the Scots to demand power transfer from Westminster.
    And 2.Similarly on the Euro. For we, as a Party, are committed to a referendum on the Euro, but if we become a member of the EU, which we claim will be automatic, the the question will arise as to whether the Commission rules that as a “new” member we must automatically join the eurozone under the right conditions. What then if the Scots decide, as we would have them do , that they do not want their economic freedoms to be curtailed by ECB diktat and Bank control, arising from the overall competence of the EU on Trade matters.

  67. IIn addition to the points that Stephen makes I would add two
    1.The Party had a clear policy that it would have a referendum on membership of the EU. Now, having heard AS deny that this continues on BBC Scotland, I am told that this has been overtaken by our clear policies on membership of the EU, as if SNP policies, even if Heaven-sent,are able to decide the sovereign will of the Scottish people. And this will be the answer to any such question during a referendum campaign where we are trumpeting the absolute right of the Scots to demand power transfer from Westminster.
    And 2.Similarly on the Euro. For we, as a Party, are committed to a referendum on the Euro, but if we become a member of the EU, which we claim will be automatic, the the question will arise as to whether the Commission rules that as a “new” member we must automatically join the eurozone under the right conditions. What then if the Scots decide, as we would have them do , that they do not want their economic freedoms to be curtailed by ECB diktat and Bank control, arising from the overall competence of the EU on Trade matters.

  68. Interesting comment by GEORGE KEREVAN Tuesday, 05 July 2011 00:00 now seemingly removed from the NNS dot com site, during the uprising.

    “Few SNP activists and even fewer of the new MSPs would reject an offer from Westminster of Scottish sovereignty out of fear it might preclude eventual independence – though that is not an unfounded worry.
    Unfortunately, the party has never had the independence-versus-sovereignty debate in an unambiguous, public fashion. Faced with a hostile media, and the traditional conservatism of the British establishment to democratic reform, the Nats have had no incentive to give away their game plan. Besides, the threat of outright independence works wonders in wringing concessions from the unionist parties.”

    Nice try George, the main problem is FFA can only be achieved by leaving or repairing the Union. On the other hand, Independence can only be achieved by leaving the union.

    The UK unwritten constitution has been high jacked by the UK political parties and parliament cannot be held to account by the people other than at the time of a general election. In parliament, the party leader with the most seats is appointed by convention, not elected by Parliament or the electorate, and as Prime Minister, controls and appoints the executive, and thus essentially a party controls parliament. The situation is further exacerbated and democracy diminished, by the “Whip system” on party MPs to ensure the outcome of a vote suits the party line. The fusion of powers currently controlled by the party leader in effect results in an elective dictatorship.

    The democratic accountability and citizen involvement with the present system is minimal at best, resulting in apathy and indifference and a justifiable lack of trust in government by the voters. The solution for this is a written codified constitution.

    The fiscal problem is the top down system used to run the economy and the doctrine of “Parliamentary Sovereignty”, the treasury are not publically audited and Parliament has no way of controlling the mindless spending of the party in power. Again a written constitution incorporated by a Federal system of bottom up collection of taxes or Fiscal Federalism as advocated by the “Steele Commission” could solve that.

    Scottish Independence is the political ambition of some political parties, advocacy groups and individuals for Scotland to secede from the Union and become a sovereign state, separate from England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    Nationalists have been advocating Independence for many years. But as political parties, they always shy away from changing the present system, which allows them power through parliamentary sovereignty. Scots did however (as did the Welsh and Northern Irish) vote for devolved assemblies, offered by unionist parties to, hopefully, stem the rise of nationalism. The unionists made a mistake, instead, the desire for regional autonomy spread throughout the UK, even in England.
    It may come as a surprise to George that Scotland is a sovereign nation now and that sovereignty lies with the Scottish people. Offering the Scottish Parliament sovereignty is a non starter.
    Which ever way you spin it, under the Westminster system, the SNP won the election.
    But, exactly what was the mandate won by the SNP on May 5th? It certainly was not full steam ahead for Independence. In fact they had retreated from that promise long before, to their surprise, they achieved a majority.
    In my mind, the truth is, since the defection of the LIB/DEM party to support the Tories (who did not win the 2010 GE) and the utter ineptitude of Labour to run the economy for 13 years, many if not all LIB/DEM voters transferred to the SNP. Not because they were now converted to Independence, but thought that the SNP had shown they were able to manage the “pocket money” competently. In fact I am convinced that many LIB/Dems are now members of the SNP and are responsible for the retreat from pushing for a referendum on secession from the union (Independence).

    Conclusion:
    The only way Westminster can prevent the breakup of the Union is to repair the broken British political system with a written codified constitution embracing a Federal System.
    The only way nationalists can attain Independence is to convince the sovereign Scottish people to go it alone is by showing them that what is on offer is better than the present UK system. In fact A Scottish Written and codified Constitution agreed and voted for by a majority in a referendum.

  69. Interesting comment by GEORGE KEREVAN Tuesday, 05 July 2011 00:00 now seemingly removed from the NNS dot com site, during the uprising.

    “Few SNP activists and even fewer of the new MSPs would reject an offer from Westminster of Scottish sovereignty out of fear it might preclude eventual independence – though that is not an unfounded worry.
    Unfortunately, the party has never had the independence-versus-sovereignty debate in an unambiguous, public fashion. Faced with a hostile media, and the traditional conservatism of the British establishment to democratic reform, the Nats have had no incentive to give away their game plan. Besides, the threat of outright independence works wonders in wringing concessions from the unionist parties.”

    Nice try George, the main problem is FFA can only be achieved by leaving or repairing the Union. On the other hand, Independence can only be achieved by leaving the union.

    The UK unwritten constitution has been high jacked by the UK political parties and parliament cannot be held to account by the people other than at the time of a general election. In parliament, the party leader with the most seats is appointed by convention, not elected by Parliament or the electorate, and as Prime Minister, controls and appoints the executive, and thus essentially a party controls parliament. The situation is further exacerbated and democracy diminished, by the “Whip system” on party MPs to ensure the outcome of a vote suits the party line. The fusion of powers currently controlled by the party leader in effect results in an elective dictatorship.

    The democratic accountability and citizen involvement with the present system is minimal at best, resulting in apathy and indifference and a justifiable lack of trust in government by the voters. The solution for this is a written codified constitution.

    The fiscal problem is the top down system used to run the economy and the doctrine of “Parliamentary Sovereignty”, the treasury are not publically audited and Parliament has no way of controlling the mindless spending of the party in power. Again a written constitution incorporated by a Federal system of bottom up collection of taxes or Fiscal Federalism as advocated by the “Steele Commission” could solve that.

    Scottish Independence is the political ambition of some political parties, advocacy groups and individuals for Scotland to secede from the Union and become a sovereign state, separate from England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    Nationalists have been advocating Independence for many years. But as political parties, they always shy away from changing the present system, which allows them power through parliamentary sovereignty. Scots did however (as did the Welsh and Northern Irish) vote for devolved assemblies, offered by unionist parties to, hopefully, stem the rise of nationalism. The unionists made a mistake, instead, the desire for regional autonomy spread throughout the UK, even in England.
    It may come as a surprise to George that Scotland is a sovereign nation now and that sovereignty lies with the Scottish people. Offering the Scottish Parliament sovereignty is a non starter.
    Which ever way you spin it, under the Westminster system, the SNP won the election.
    But, exactly what was the mandate won by the SNP on May 5th? It certainly was not full steam ahead for Independence. In fact they had retreated from that promise long before, to their surprise, they achieved a majority.
    In my mind, the truth is, since the defection of the LIB/DEM party to support the Tories (who did not win the 2010 GE) and the utter ineptitude of Labour to run the economy for 13 years, many if not all LIB/DEM voters transferred to the SNP. Not because they were now converted to Independence, but thought that the SNP had shown they were able to manage the “pocket money” competently. In fact I am convinced that many LIB/Dems are now members of the SNP and are responsible for the retreat from pushing for a referendum on secession from the union (Independence).

    Conclusion:
    The only way Westminster can prevent the breakup of the Union is to repair the broken British political system with a written codified constitution embracing a Federal System.
    The only way nationalists can attain Independence is to convince the sovereign Scottish people to go it alone is by showing them that what is on offer is better than the present UK system. In fact A Scottish Written and codified Constitution agreed and voted for by a majority in a referendum.

  70. Interesting comment by GEORGE KEREVAN Tuesday, 05 July 2011 00:00 now seemingly removed from the NNS dot com site, during the uprising.

    “Few SNP activists and even fewer of the new MSPs would reject an offer from Westminster of Scottish sovereignty out of fear it might preclude eventual independence – though that is not an unfounded worry.
    Unfortunately, the party has never had the independence-versus-sovereignty debate in an unambiguous, public fashion. Faced with a hostile media, and the traditional conservatism of the British establishment to democratic reform, the Nats have had no incentive to give away their game plan. Besides, the threat of outright independence works wonders in wringing concessions from the unionist parties.”

    Nice try George, the main problem is FFA can only be achieved by leaving or repairing the Union. On the other hand, Independence can only be achieved by leaving the union.

    The UK unwritten constitution has been high jacked by the UK political parties and parliament cannot be held to account by the people other than at the time of a general election. In parliament, the party leader with the most seats is appointed by convention, not elected by Parliament or the electorate, and as Prime Minister, controls and appoints the executive, and thus essentially a party controls parliament. The situation is further exacerbated and democracy diminished, by the “Whip system” on party MPs to ensure the outcome of a vote suits the party line. The fusion of powers currently controlled by the party leader in effect results in an elective dictatorship.

    The democratic accountability and citizen involvement with the present system is minimal at best, resulting in apathy and indifference and a justifiable lack of trust in government by the voters. The solution for this is a written codified constitution.

    The fiscal problem is the top down system used to run the economy and the doctrine of “Parliamentary Sovereignty”, the treasury are not publically audited and Parliament has no way of controlling the mindless spending of the party in power. Again a written constitution incorporated by a Federal system of bottom up collection of taxes or Fiscal Federalism as advocated by the “Steele Commission” could solve that.

    Scottish Independence is the political ambition of some political parties, advocacy groups and individuals for Scotland to secede from the Union and become a sovereign state, separate from England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    Nationalists have been advocating Independence for many years. But as political parties, they always shy away from changing the present system, which allows them power through parliamentary sovereignty. Scots did however (as did the Welsh and Northern Irish) vote for devolved assemblies, offered by unionist parties to, hopefully, stem the rise of nationalism. The unionists made a mistake, instead, the desire for regional autonomy spread throughout the UK, even in England.
    It may come as a surprise to George that Scotland is a sovereign nation now and that sovereignty lies with the Scottish people. Offering the Scottish Parliament sovereignty is a non starter.
    Which ever way you spin it, under the Westminster system, the SNP won the election.
    But, exactly what was the mandate won by the SNP on May 5th? It certainly was not full steam ahead for Independence. In fact they had retreated from that promise long before, to their surprise, they achieved a majority.
    In my mind, the truth is, since the defection of the LIB/DEM party to support the Tories (who did not win the 2010 GE) and the utter ineptitude of Labour to run the economy for 13 years, many if not all LIB/DEM voters transferred to the SNP. Not because they were now converted to Independence, but thought that the SNP had shown they were able to manage the “pocket money” competently. In fact I am convinced that many LIB/Dems are now members of the SNP and are responsible for the retreat from pushing for a referendum on secession from the union (Independence).

    Conclusion:
    The only way Westminster can prevent the breakup of the Union is to repair the broken British political system with a written codified constitution embracing a Federal System.
    The only way nationalists can attain Independence is to convince the sovereign Scottish people to go it alone is by showing them that what is on offer is better than the present UK system. In fact A Scottish Written and codified Constitution agreed and voted for by a majority in a referendum.

  71. Interesting comment by GEORGE KEREVAN Tuesday, 05 July 2011 00:00 now seemingly removed from the NNS dot com site, during the uprising.

    “Few SNP activists and even fewer of the new MSPs would reject an offer from Westminster of Scottish sovereignty out of fear it might preclude eventual independence – though that is not an unfounded worry.
    Unfortunately, the party has never had the independence-versus-sovereignty debate in an unambiguous, public fashion. Faced with a hostile media, and the traditional conservatism of the British establishment to democratic reform, the Nats have had no incentive to give away their game plan. Besides, the threat of outright independence works wonders in wringing concessions from the unionist parties.”

    Nice try George, the main problem is FFA can only be achieved by leaving or repairing the Union. On the other hand, Independence can only be achieved by leaving the union.

    The UK unwritten constitution has been high jacked by the UK political parties and parliament cannot be held to account by the people other than at the time of a general election. In parliament, the party leader with the most seats is appointed by convention, not elected by Parliament or the electorate, and as Prime Minister, controls and appoints the executive, and thus essentially a party controls parliament. The situation is further exacerbated and democracy diminished, by the “Whip system” on party MPs to ensure the outcome of a vote suits the party line. The fusion of powers currently controlled by the party leader in effect results in an elective dictatorship.

    The democratic accountability and citizen involvement with the present system is minimal at best, resulting in apathy and indifference and a justifiable lack of trust in government by the voters. The solution for this is a written codified constitution.

    The fiscal problem is the top down system used to run the economy and the doctrine of “Parliamentary Sovereignty”, the treasury are not publically audited and Parliament has no way of controlling the mindless spending of the party in power. Again a written constitution incorporated by a Federal system of bottom up collection of taxes or Fiscal Federalism as advocated by the “Steele Commission” could solve that.

    Scottish Independence is the political ambition of some political parties, advocacy groups and individuals for Scotland to secede from the Union and become a sovereign state, separate from England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    Nationalists have been advocating Independence for many years. But as political parties, they always shy away from changing the present system, which allows them power through parliamentary sovereignty. Scots did however (as did the Welsh and Northern Irish) vote for devolved assemblies, offered by unionist parties to, hopefully, stem the rise of nationalism. The unionists made a mistake, instead, the desire for regional autonomy spread throughout the UK, even in England.
    It may come as a surprise to George that Scotland is a sovereign nation now and that sovereignty lies with the Scottish people. Offering the Scottish Parliament sovereignty is a non starter.
    Which ever way you spin it, under the Westminster system, the SNP won the election.
    But, exactly what was the mandate won by the SNP on May 5th? It certainly was not full steam ahead for Independence. In fact they had retreated from that promise long before, to their surprise, they achieved a majority.
    In my mind, the truth is, since the defection of the LIB/DEM party to support the Tories (who did not win the 2010 GE) and the utter ineptitude of Labour to run the economy for 13 years, many if not all LIB/DEM voters transferred to the SNP. Not because they were now converted to Independence, but thought that the SNP had shown they were able to manage the “pocket money” competently. In fact I am convinced that many LIB/Dems are now members of the SNP and are responsible for the retreat from pushing for a referendum on secession from the union (Independence).

    Conclusion:
    The only way Westminster can prevent the breakup of the Union is to repair the broken British political system with a written codified constitution embracing a Federal System.
    The only way nationalists can attain Independence is to convince the sovereign Scottish people to go it alone is by showing them that what is on offer is better than the present UK system. In fact A Scottish Written and codified Constitution agreed and voted for by a majority in a referendum.

  72. Interesting comment by GEORGE KEREVAN Tuesday, 05 July 2011 00:00 now seemingly removed from the NNS dot com site, during the uprising.

    “Few SNP activists and even fewer of the new MSPs would reject an offer from Westminster of Scottish sovereignty out of fear it might preclude eventual independence – though that is not an unfounded worry.
    Unfortunately, the party has never had the independence-versus-sovereignty debate in an unambiguous, public fashion. Faced with a hostile media, and the traditional conservatism of the British establishment to democratic reform, the Nats have had no incentive to give away their game plan. Besides, the threat of outright independence works wonders in wringing concessions from the unionist parties.”

    Nice try George, the main problem is FFA can only be achieved by leaving or repairing the Union. On the other hand, Independence can only be achieved by leaving the union.

    The UK unwritten constitution has been high jacked by the UK political parties and parliament cannot be held to account by the people other than at the time of a general election. In parliament, the party leader with the most seats is appointed by convention, not elected by Parliament or the electorate, and as Prime Minister, controls and appoints the executive, and thus essentially a party controls parliament. The situation is further exacerbated and democracy diminished, by the “Whip system” on party MPs to ensure the outcome of a vote suits the party line. The fusion of powers currently controlled by the party leader in effect results in an elective dictatorship.

    The democratic accountability and citizen involvement with the present system is minimal at best, resulting in apathy and indifference and a justifiable lack of trust in government by the voters. The solution for this is a written codified constitution.

    The fiscal problem is the top down system used to run the economy and the doctrine of “Parliamentary Sovereignty”, the treasury are not publically audited and Parliament has no way of controlling the mindless spending of the party in power. Again a written constitution incorporated by a Federal system of bottom up collection of taxes or Fiscal Federalism as advocated by the “Steele Commission” could solve that.

    Scottish Independence is the political ambition of some political parties, advocacy groups and individuals for Scotland to secede from the Union and become a sovereign state, separate from England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    Nationalists have been advocating Independence for many years. But as political parties, they always shy away from changing the present system, which allows them power through parliamentary sovereignty. Scots did however (as did the Welsh and Northern Irish) vote for devolved assemblies, offered by unionist parties to, hopefully, stem the rise of nationalism. The unionists made a mistake, instead, the desire for regional autonomy spread throughout the UK, even in England.
    It may come as a surprise to George that Scotland is a sovereign nation now and that sovereignty lies with the Scottish people. Offering the Scottish Parliament sovereignty is a non starter.
    Which ever way you spin it, under the Westminster system, the SNP won the election.
    But, exactly what was the mandate won by the SNP on May 5th? It certainly was not full steam ahead for Independence. In fact they had retreated from that promise long before, to their surprise, they achieved a majority.
    In my mind, the truth is, since the defection of the LIB/DEM party to support the Tories (who did not win the 2010 GE) and the utter ineptitude of Labour to run the economy for 13 years, many if not all LIB/DEM voters transferred to the SNP. Not because they were now converted to Independence, but thought that the SNP had shown they were able to manage the “pocket money” competently. In fact I am convinced that many LIB/Dems are now members of the SNP and are responsible for the retreat from pushing for a referendum on secession from the union (Independence).

    Conclusion:
    The only way Westminster can prevent the breakup of the Union is to repair the broken British political system with a written codified constitution embracing a Federal System.
    The only way nationalists can attain Independence is to convince the sovereign Scottish people to go it alone is by showing them that what is on offer is better than the present UK system. In fact A Scottish Written and codified Constitution agreed and voted for by a majority in a referendum.

  73. Exel,

    “The UK unwritten constitution has been high jacked by the UK political parties and parliament cannot be held to account by the people other than at the time of a general election”

    Sorry to rain on your parade. As you wrote, its “unwritten”, therefore in a court of law it doesnt exist. When challenged by juge, barristers and jurors, there would be no proof of ANY constitution. Written/unwritten or even hinted at. In a monarchy all commoners are subjects.

    Scottish law men/women should be looking through the act of Union along with all the actions through the 300+ years history searching out the loopholes in the small print. Any infraction should be tested in a court of law. Any and all conflicts, renages or breaking of the agreement, should render the Union disolved, through breach of contract.

    Independence is sovereignty. The scots are sovereign. It was Queen Anne who negotiated with “Such a Parcel of Rogues in a Nation”(same people different words) to end the right of the Scots to choose their monarch.

    After 300+ years scotland and the people dont need a monarch. Queen Elizabeth II is not our queen as we havent had a Queen Elizabeth 1st.

    As for the LibDems voters “IN YOUR OPINION” defecting to SNP bla bla bla therefore the vote for independence is is being watered down or retreated from, what a load of escaping gas you are.

    All of a sudden you are the voice piece of these voters and You Mr High and mighty get to set what these people say mean and determined when they voted. My god son you sound like ” The elective dictator” Tony Blair before he plunged the UK into an illegal WAR. Your opinion, isnt worth tosh, let the voters decide.
    I could just as easily have said “in my opinion the great majority of LibDem voters DO want a velvet divorce” and moved their vote to the SNP to ENSURE Independence. Being a Liberal is not about unionism or independence.
    Due to the SNP not talking publicly at this time, should not be interpretted as a fear of the subject. You must be aware that the SNP didnt talk about a landslide at the recent elections, though there were the odd mutterings along the way to tickle the thought. Then the voters went and did the deed, such naughty voters tsk tsk. Westminster sat up and are now listening, funny what just one election can do. Get with the program, Scotlands on the move, if you dont want left behind, you better be on the bus.

    I love how the unionists are still wriggling and attempting to tell the electorate the vote was a protest vote and at the next election it will be Status Quo the sequel.

    Labour is a busted flush with next to no political talent in Scotland, Tories, most hated political party in scottish politics. Libdems get tory.
    With that bunch you think SNP are worried, ha ha ha ha

    Alba gu brath…

    I am politicaly a Liberal, but I want to be a Liberal and FREE from westminster and England. So please Mr Know it all. Choose your words with care. Please^^

  74. Exel,

    “The UK unwritten constitution has been high jacked by the UK political parties and parliament cannot be held to account by the people other than at the time of a general election”

    Sorry to rain on your parade. As you wrote, its “unwritten”, therefore in a court of law it doesnt exist. When challenged by juge, barristers and jurors, there would be no proof of ANY constitution. Written/unwritten or even hinted at. In a monarchy all commoners are subjects.

    Scottish law men/women should be looking through the act of Union along with all the actions through the 300+ years history searching out the loopholes in the small print. Any infraction should be tested in a court of law. Any and all conflicts, renages or breaking of the agreement, should render the Union disolved, through breach of contract.

    Independence is sovereignty. The scots are sovereign. It was Queen Anne who negotiated with “Such a Parcel of Rogues in a Nation”(same people different words) to end the right of the Scots to choose their monarch.

    After 300+ years scotland and the people dont need a monarch. Queen Elizabeth II is not our queen as we havent had a Queen Elizabeth 1st.

    As for the LibDems voters “IN YOUR OPINION” defecting to SNP bla bla bla therefore the vote for independence is is being watered down or retreated from, what a load of escaping gas you are.

    All of a sudden you are the voice piece of these voters and You Mr High and mighty get to set what these people say mean and determined when they voted. My god son you sound like ” The elective dictator” Tony Blair before he plunged the UK into an illegal WAR. Your opinion, isnt worth tosh, let the voters decide.
    I could just as easily have said “in my opinion the great majority of LibDem voters DO want a velvet divorce” and moved their vote to the SNP to ENSURE Independence. Being a Liberal is not about unionism or independence.
    Due to the SNP not talking publicly at this time, should not be interpretted as a fear of the subject. You must be aware that the SNP didnt talk about a landslide at the recent elections, though there were the odd mutterings along the way to tickle the thought. Then the voters went and did the deed, such naughty voters tsk tsk. Westminster sat up and are now listening, funny what just one election can do. Get with the program, Scotlands on the move, if you dont want left behind, you better be on the bus.

    I love how the unionists are still wriggling and attempting to tell the electorate the vote was a protest vote and at the next election it will be Status Quo the sequel.

    Labour is a busted flush with next to no political talent in Scotland, Tories, most hated political party in scottish politics. Libdems get tory.
    With that bunch you think SNP are worried, ha ha ha ha

    Alba gu brath…

    I am politicaly a Liberal, but I want to be a Liberal and FREE from westminster and England. So please Mr Know it all. Choose your words with care. Please^^

  75. Exel,

    “The UK unwritten constitution has been high jacked by the UK political parties and parliament cannot be held to account by the people other than at the time of a general election”

    Sorry to rain on your parade. As you wrote, its “unwritten”, therefore in a court of law it doesnt exist. When challenged by juge, barristers and jurors, there would be no proof of ANY constitution. Written/unwritten or even hinted at. In a monarchy all commoners are subjects.

    Scottish law men/women should be looking through the act of Union along with all the actions through the 300+ years history searching out the loopholes in the small print. Any infraction should be tested in a court of law. Any and all conflicts, renages or breaking of the agreement, should render the Union disolved, through breach of contract.

    Independence is sovereignty. The scots are sovereign. It was Queen Anne who negotiated with “Such a Parcel of Rogues in a Nation”(same people different words) to end the right of the Scots to choose their monarch.

    After 300+ years scotland and the people dont need a monarch. Queen Elizabeth II is not our queen as we havent had a Queen Elizabeth 1st.

    As for the LibDems voters “IN YOUR OPINION” defecting to SNP bla bla bla therefore the vote for independence is is being watered down or retreated from, what a load of escaping gas you are.

    All of a sudden you are the voice piece of these voters and You Mr High and mighty get to set what these people say mean and determined when they voted. My god son you sound like ” The elective dictator” Tony Blair before he plunged the UK into an illegal WAR. Your opinion, isnt worth tosh, let the voters decide.
    I could just as easily have said “in my opinion the great majority of LibDem voters DO want a velvet divorce” and moved their vote to the SNP to ENSURE Independence. Being a Liberal is not about unionism or independence.
    Due to the SNP not talking publicly at this time, should not be interpretted as a fear of the subject. You must be aware that the SNP didnt talk about a landslide at the recent elections, though there were the odd mutterings along the way to tickle the thought. Then the voters went and did the deed, such naughty voters tsk tsk. Westminster sat up and are now listening, funny what just one election can do. Get with the program, Scotlands on the move, if you dont want left behind, you better be on the bus.

    I love how the unionists are still wriggling and attempting to tell the electorate the vote was a protest vote and at the next election it will be Status Quo the sequel.

    Labour is a busted flush with next to no political talent in Scotland, Tories, most hated political party in scottish politics. Libdems get tory.
    With that bunch you think SNP are worried, ha ha ha ha

    Alba gu brath…

    I am politicaly a Liberal, but I want to be a Liberal and FREE from westminster and England. So please Mr Know it all. Choose your words with care. Please^^

  76. Exel,

    “The UK unwritten constitution has been high jacked by the UK political parties and parliament cannot be held to account by the people other than at the time of a general election”

    Sorry to rain on your parade. As you wrote, its “unwritten”, therefore in a court of law it doesnt exist. When challenged by juge, barristers and jurors, there would be no proof of ANY constitution. Written/unwritten or even hinted at. In a monarchy all commoners are subjects.

    Scottish law men/women should be looking through the act of Union along with all the actions through the 300+ years history searching out the loopholes in the small print. Any infraction should be tested in a court of law. Any and all conflicts, renages or breaking of the agreement, should render the Union disolved, through breach of contract.

    Independence is sovereignty. The scots are sovereign. It was Queen Anne who negotiated with “Such a Parcel of Rogues in a Nation”(same people different words) to end the right of the Scots to choose their monarch.

    After 300+ years scotland and the people dont need a monarch. Queen Elizabeth II is not our queen as we havent had a Queen Elizabeth 1st.

    As for the LibDems voters “IN YOUR OPINION” defecting to SNP bla bla bla therefore the vote for independence is is being watered down or retreated from, what a load of escaping gas you are.

    All of a sudden you are the voice piece of these voters and You Mr High and mighty get to set what these people say mean and determined when they voted. My god son you sound like ” The elective dictator” Tony Blair before he plunged the UK into an illegal WAR. Your opinion, isnt worth tosh, let the voters decide.
    I could just as easily have said “in my opinion the great majority of LibDem voters DO want a velvet divorce” and moved their vote to the SNP to ENSURE Independence. Being a Liberal is not about unionism or independence.
    Due to the SNP not talking publicly at this time, should not be interpretted as a fear of the subject. You must be aware that the SNP didnt talk about a landslide at the recent elections, though there were the odd mutterings along the way to tickle the thought. Then the voters went and did the deed, such naughty voters tsk tsk. Westminster sat up and are now listening, funny what just one election can do. Get with the program, Scotlands on the move, if you dont want left behind, you better be on the bus.

    I love how the unionists are still wriggling and attempting to tell the electorate the vote was a protest vote and at the next election it will be Status Quo the sequel.

    Labour is a busted flush with next to no political talent in Scotland, Tories, most hated political party in scottish politics. Libdems get tory.
    With that bunch you think SNP are worried, ha ha ha ha

    Alba gu brath…

    I am politicaly a Liberal, but I want to be a Liberal and FREE from westminster and England. So please Mr Know it all. Choose your words with care. Please^^

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